First time ever...

Never been to a rugby game before. Pretty interesting game what with all the smashing, tackling, kicking, chucking the ball and gymnastics.

Had a good time.

I for one agree, this needs to die an unnatural death.

"Don White" <whited@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote in message

"P Fritz" <paulfritzNOSPAMFORME@voyager.net> wrote in message

<tschnautz@gmail.com> wrote in message

"PocoLoco" <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message

The best rugby road trips were always to Columbia, Missouri, home of Mizzou, Stephens, and Christian College for Women. By far the most and best looking women in a five state area.

Your memory of Midwest Rugby is different than the Univ. of Kansas JayHawk Rugby Club's memory of Midwest Rugby.

from: http://www.jayhawkrugby.com/About.htm

" Rugby did not exist anywhere between the Mississippi River and the Rocky Mountains until 1964. In the fall of that year, George Bunting returned to study Law at the University of Kansas after having completed his undergraduate degree at Dartmouth. George's first experience with Rugby occurred during his years of exile on the East Coast and he resolved to introduce the sport to the Jayhawks. To this end he advertised in the campus newspaper, "The Daily Kansan", and, in response, over twenty people gathered in a room that he had reserved in the Memorial Union Building. This was the first meeting of the Club.

Concurrent with the activities in Lawrence, Gerry Seymore, a British Expatriate, was assisting in the founding of the Kansas City RFC. So it was, there being but two teams in the whole region, that the Jayhawks and the KCRFC assembled in Kansas City for the match that initiated Rugby in the Heart of America. Those that recall the encounter suggest that the quality of play left much to be desired.

Ten Years later, Allen Chapman, a Cornwall expatriate, arrived in Lawrence and formalized the Club's operations. His lofty plans included constitutional organization, international Rugby tours and, ultimately, a clubhouse and playing fields.

Since that first season, the Kansas Jayhawks have slowly but surely matured. The KJRFC has now established for itself a permanent place among the array of local sports. Furthermore, the KJRFC is proud of the fact that it had joined an elite group of clubs in the United States to own and operate its own Rugby fields which we endearingly call Westwick. The Westwick Rugby & Athletic Complex, a 55 acre sports complex in located south of Lawrence in the scenic Wakarusa River Valley. We have been proud to host numerous clubs from across the country, and the world, at Westwick.

The KJRFC fields 4 different sides:

a.. Men's Club b.. Men's Collegiate c.. Women's Collegiate d.. Old Boy's (Greyhawks)

1964

Rugby was founded by George Bunting

1967 . Heart of America Rugby Football Union founded

1976 . Constitution adopted (author - Allen Chapman) . Organizational, touring and hosting issues become the primary focus of rugby club's goals

1977 . England Tour

1979 . Scotland/Ireland Tour "

"Harry Krause" <harry.krause@gmail.com> wrote in message

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 13:33:36 -0400, "Mr. Skip Starbuck" <coffeegrinder@columbia.com> wrote:

They have an alumni site for the Rugby Players Alumni. They are looking to match up the teams with their current info. I am sure they would like to hear from Harry.

"PocoLoco" <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Here's another interesting article from the same university on the same subject:

January 28, 1910

The Day They Almost Abolished Football

Twenty seasons after its formal introduction at the University of Kansas, the game of football had plenty of fans – and plenty of detractors as well. In the former category were many KU students and alumni, as well as University Chancellor Frank Strong (although he did, apparently, have some reservations about the sport). But in the latter zone were J.W. Gleed and William Allen White, members of the Board of Regents and significant men in their own rights in early twentieth-century Kansas.

And on this day in KU history, Gleed proposed and White seconded a motion to abolish football until the rules were changed to eliminate endemic corruption and promote player safety. Although the motion was defeated, the Board of Regents agreed that it was “opposed to the game of football as now conducted, believing it does not tend to clean athletics.” For the next few months, the future of football at KU hung in the balance, and for a while, it almost seemed that English Rugby would replace this classic American college game.

KU’s Athletic Association had organized its first football team in September 1890. Despite an inauspicious inaugural season that saw the Jayhawkers lose twice to Baker (though Kansas fans claimed the second game as a victory because of some questionable officiating), students and the rest of the University faithful embraced the sport wholeheartedly.

The universities of the sort to which KU aspired to equal – the Ivy League schools and Michigan for instance – all maintained top-flight football teams, and so the University of Kansas’ supporters believed their institution needed to develop a similarly excellent team. As a result, football came to enjoy an immense popularity at KU. Students, alumni, and faculty members all rallied their school spirit behind a team that over its first two full seasons (1891-1892) enjoyed a record of 14-1-1.

These initial successes fostered the expectation that future teams would fare equally well. When this failed to happen, Kansas boosters sought other ways to help ensure gridiron victories. KU began recruiting paid athletes and the team allowed players who were not passing their classes (or were not enrolled students at all) to participate in the weekly games.

By 1895, the demise of the team’s amateurism had bred a number of critics within the University, including English professor Edwin M. Hopkins who had served as KU’s football coach for its very successful 1891 and 1892 seasons. Hopkins was not alone in wondering whether football on Mt. Oread had come to “stand for brutality, for trickery; for paid players, for profanity, for betting before games and for drinking after them.”

The brutality to which Hopkins alluded was indeed an integral part of the game as it was played in the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries. Players wore very little in the way of protective gear, even spurning helmets. Compounding these problems was the fact that officials enforced what few safety rules there were rather unevenly. In 1894, for example, the officials failed to penalize Michigan’s team after one of its players jumped (with both feet) on a Kansas player who had just scored a touchdown.

Two years later, a player named Bert Serf from Doane College in Nebraska was killed while making a touchdown-saving tackle against Kansas in the final minute of a game in which he had earlier been knocked unconscious. Serf’s death led the Kansas University Weekly to conclude, “rather than allow this [sort of] danger to exist it would be better to abolish the game completely.” When the paper ultimately backed off and asked instead that the Western Inter-State University Foot Ball Association (to which KU belonged) “adopt the needed reforms,” it fell in line with the majority of the game’s critics.

But in 1901, KU Coach John Outland (of the Outland Trophy fame) was caught using an ineligible player with an assumed name. Criticism of the game began to mount again and continued to do so for the remainder of the first decade of the twentieth century. Much of the criticism was well deserved. After a 1903 Kansas-Nebraska game, both sides charged the other with using ineligible players and in consequence suspended all future athletic contests between the schools. The following year, KU Chancellor Frank Strong had to fire Coach Harold S. Weeks for carrying on a sexual relationship with a freshman girl.

By the end of the autumn of 1905, the University was not alone in its skepticism about the benefits of football. Following that year’s season – in which 18 college players from schools around the country died from injuries sustained in games and more than 150 were hurt seriously – cries for football’s abolition echoed from every quarter of the nation.

In December 1905, influential representatives of 62 universities met in New York City to decide the fate of the game. They decided to keep it, but formed the Intercollegiate Athletic Association (which later became the National Collegiate Athletic Association) to work with the American Football Rules Committee to make the game safer. Most of the rules that were adopted early in 1906 (including the legalization of the forward pass and the adoption of a neutral zone) were designed to spread out the players so that there would be fewer pileups.

The change in the rules, coupled with KU’s entry into the Missouri Valley Conference in 1907, eased the debate over the game’s future at the University. But this was only temporary. Complaints about football cropped up again during the 1909 season when it became apparent that certain KU boosters were paying substitutes to cover the shifts of football players when their outside jobs interfered with practices or games. (At the time, it was acceptable for college athletes to be employed, as long as they actually worked for the money.) In addition, the University had broken conference rules by spending more than $400 on training tables, which regularly featured steak dinners aimed at keeping the players healthy.

The proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back came, perhaps, in the rumor that opposing coaches had begun supplying their players with alcohol and narcotics both to ease pain and heighten energy. Thus it was that when the Board of Regents met on January 28, 1910, J.W. Gleed made a motion to abolish intercollegiate football at the university. Fellow regent William Allen White joined him in his motion.

This proposal failed to achieve majority support, but the Regents subsequently invited representatives from the other schools in the Missouri Valley Conference to a meeting scheduled for April 19 in which the matter of the “betterment of the present game” might be discussed. If the talks concluded that that the game was irretrievably corrupt, the Regents were willing to accept the substitution of English Rugby for football or mandate football’s outright abolition.

In the weeks that followed, the relative merits of football were debated at all levels of the University. The Regents remained divided over the issue even after Gleed published an attack on the game in which he alluded to players who “get a passing grade without earning it” and maintained that it was not “possible for men to engage in fierce hand to hand physical struggle without arousing the smashing and destroying instinct which comes down to us from our animal ancestors.”

Chancellor Strong, who favored the retention of football, wrote a letter to the American Football Rules Committee encouraging them to make substantive changes in the rules to protect collegiate players. KU Coach Bert Kennedy asserted that the game was no more dangerous than any other sport at the University and argued that his “football players [were] among the manliest men in the school.” College Dean Olin Templin, however, hoped that rugby would replace football and insisted that “from a spectator’s point of view [English Rugby was] much the better game.”

Even W.H. Stubbs, the governor of Kansas, entered the fray and announced his opposition to football in April 1910. As might be expected from a politician, he waffled somewhat. When addressing a crowd of students, he claimed to “like clean American sports,” and announced that the “old American game is good enough for me.”

KU students, for their part, almost universally favored retaining football and soon launched, as the Kansan reported, “an open campaign against rugby.” Members of the football team, Coach Kennedy, and Dr. James Naismith, the inventor of basketball and KU’s director of physical culture, assisted the students in this effort. Naismith gave a resounding endorsement of the contested sport when he announced at a mass meeting that he had “always believed that football [was] the typical college game.” Shortly thereafter, a “football ticket” was organized to run in student government elections, and all of its candidates won.

Nonetheless, student hopes for the preservation of KU football began to dwindle in early April when word leaked out that Coach Kennedy would devote the team’s spring practices to teaching his players the game of rugby. Within days, many students had grown downright despondent and started to assume that their cause was lost. The Kansan even published an article explaining the rules of rugby to the students so that they would understand what it was they had been opposing.

This “Monday mourning” turned out to be premature. On April 19, 1910, the schools of the Missouri Valley Conference voted to retain their football teams. However, the conference did institute some rules it hoped would de-emphasize the importance of football at its respective universities. The representatives of the schools banned freshmen from playing on the varsity football squad, proscribed Thanksgiving Day football games, mandated that all intercollegiate games be played on college campuses, and forbade the hiring of any coach who was not a “regular member of the teaching staff employed by the governing board of the institution, for the full academic year.”

Although the changes made little difference in the questionable practices of KU’s football team, the game was never again threatened at the University. (The following year, for example, a man named Henry Ahrens “was induced to [play football for] the University by offers of payment in one fashion or another” and managed to masquerade as a law school student while he was on the team. When the matter was discovered, the Board of Regents hinted that it might again “seriously [consider] the abolition of football,” but ultimately did not.)

Ironically enough, despite all of the emphasis placed on football in the early years and the cheating that accompanied it, KU never developed into a football powerhouse in the manner that the flagship universities of the states immediately to the north and south of Kansas did. And while all this attention was focused on football, KU quietly developed a basketball program that would rank among the very best in the nation. If KU could not say it achieved the greatness of Notre Dame, Michigan, or Alabama in the sport in which it so badly wanted to excel, its ability to claim membership in the same basketball fraternity as UCLA, Duke, and Kentucky proved to be a more than adequate consolation prize.

- - -

Isn't it interesting that at least 75% of "Smithers" life on usenet is spent with his nose up my butt...

Did you read this article. It discussed the idea that Rugby was considered as an alternative sport to football, but I don't believe it discussed Rugby as a colligate or intercollegiate sport at U of Kansas, if it did I missed it.

You are really grasping at straws.

"Harry Krause" <harry.krause@gmail.com> wrote in message

***** "Anal Fixation"

Definition: Anal Fixation refers to attachment to anal activities and their manifestations. According to Freud's psychosexual development stages, children between the ages 18 to 36 months get their most intense gratification through retaining or expelling feces. The major event at this stage is toilet training, a process through which children are taught when, where, and how excretion is deemed appropriate by society. Children at this stage start to notice the pleasure and displeasure associated with bowel movements. Through toilet training, they also discover their own ability to control such movements. Along with it comes the realization that this ability gives them power over their parents. That is, by exercising control over the retention and expulsion of feces, a child can choose to either grand or resist parents' wishes.

Maladaptation in this stage manifests as either anal expulsive personality or anal retentive personality, both of which lead to immature and neurotic behavior in one's adult life. ******

Pay close attention to that last paragraph. Try not to think of Harry and Kevin when doing so.

Is Narcissistic personality disorder considered Neurotic Behavior?

"PocoLoco" <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message

Diagnostic Criteria

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:

1. has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements) 2. is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love 3. believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions) 4. requires excessive admiration 5. has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations 6. is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends 7. lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others 8. is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her 9. shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes ****

Some more info:

FIVE DON'T DO'S How to Avoid the Wrath of the Narcissist * Never disagree with the narcissist or contradict him;

* Never offer him any intimacy;

* Look awed by whatever attribute matters to him (for instance: by his professional achievements or by his good looks, or by his success with women and so on);

* Never remind him of life out there and if you do, connect it somehow to his sense of grandiosity;

* Do not make any comment, which might directly or indirectly impinge on his self-image, omnipotence, judgment, omniscience, skills, capabilities, professional record, or even omnipresence. Bad sentences start with: "I think you overlooked ... made a mistake here ... you don't know ... do you know ... you were not here yesterday so ... you cannot ... you should ... (perceived as rude imposition, narcissists react very badly to restrictions placed on their freedom) ... I (never mention the fact that you are a separate, independent entity, narcissists regard others as extensions of their selves, their internalization processes were screwed up and they did not differentiate properly) ..." You get the gist of it. *

Some good info can be found at:

http://www.angelfire.com/ego/narcissism/

Including:

"Lying is an integral part of the narcissist's behavior and all their self-reports are unreliable. His cognition is impaired to the extent that he frequently misinterprets other's speech, actions, and thoughts. He may believe that someone respects or loves him although this is a fantasy which exists only in the mind of the narcissist."

DAMN. Can you believe how accurately that describes Harry. Normally people might have 75% of the symptoms, Harry had 100% It seems as if the author personally knew Harry. I guess that is what happens when you are Anal Retentive and NPD.

I am impressed with your Google skills.

"PocoLoco" <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message

I'm trying to give you a decent response because I know your intent is to help Harry.

There is a definite possibility that this was Harry's given name and Harry changed his name to Harry Krause when he became a professional writer.

"PocoLoco" <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message

I had no idea U of Kansas had a Rugby Team in the last 60's. It would be interesting to see what their record was during that time.

"Harry Krause" <harry.krause@gmail.com> wrote in message

I think the rugby story was a troll, just to get Harry to bite!

"PocoLoco" <PocoLoco415@hotmail.com> wrote in message

During the 60's there was only 2 Rugby teams between the Mississippi and the Rockies'. The teams left a lot to be desired. "Those that recall the encounter suggest that the quality of play left much to be desired."

I am sure it would be easy to check with the team to see if they know a Harry Krause, but my guess is Harry asked them not to release any information concerning his time as the star performer for the Rugby Team.

"Mr. Skip Starbuck" <coffeegrinder@columbia.com> wrote in message