déjà vu all over again

I just got back from my final trip to Florida - picked up the Scout (another story) and started the trip back to MA. Got to Norfork and visited Eisboch Jr. and his very pregnant wife, then headed north towing the Scout. Got as far as Fredricksburg, VA and the new, heavy duty diesel Ford 350 died again.

After all kinds of debates and decisions, I ended up hiring the tow company to transport the dead Ford, with a 20' Scout in tow, all the way from VA to MA.

We dropped off the boat in my driveway, then continued to Plymouth, MA and dropped off the dead Ford in the dealer's lot. Gonna be a bit of excitement down there on Monday when they open.

Eisboch (back from the last trip to hell)

You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off these college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046.

Thanks for your input.

I remember when I went off to college, just two suitcases (flew down there) and one ups box my parents shipped. Four years later I returned with a car stuffed full, towing a trailer stuffed full. I don't know where all the crap came from.

I am out in Ann Arbor a lot......most of our work is just south of the University.

You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; )

Remember the movie the Big Chill?

> > Remember the movie the Big Chill?

Yep.....and they also made fun of the ugly football helmet.

But they were also all potheads. Is that the connection you are trying to make? ;-)

Most likely, Kevin and I sat together and smoked some home grown while watching the movie.

I am curious why the football helmet is ugly? I could understand if you wanted to know what the hell it was, but it really isn't ugly.

I am curious why you haven't asked me about the "Lions", now there is a football team.

Sat 09/17/05 Fordham Bronx, N.Y. W, 23-17 Sat 09/24/05 DUQUESNE Lawrence A. Wien Stadium W, 23-13 Sat 10/01/05 Princeton* Princeton, N.J. L, 43-3 Sat 10/08/05 Lafayette Easton, Pa. Lafayette TV Network L, 14-7 Sat 10/15/05 PENN* (H) Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 16-44 Sat 10/22/05 Dartmouth* Hanover, N.H. YES Network L, 17-6 Sat 10/29/05 YALE* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 37-3 Sat 11/05/05 HARVARD* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 55-7 Sat 11/12/05 Cornell* Ithaca, N.Y. L, 45-7 Sat 11/19/05 BROWN* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium YES Network L, 55-21

This has been their best year in over 50 yrs. They trounced Fordham and Duquesne (whoever the hell they are)

BBAAWWWAAAHHHHHAAAA!!!!!!

I really do not keep up with sports, so I really had to look up the helmets to see what was so ugly about them.

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" <The WordSmith> wrote in message news:vNCdndPNY_y5Mz3eRVn-gg@comcast.com... > JimH, > > You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; ) > > Remember the movie the Big Chill? > > > " JimH" <me1@aol.com> wrote in message > news:Oc6dnfduqd2sPD3eRVn-pA@comcast.com... >> >> "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" <The WordSmith> wrote in message >> news:7tqdnQ9uVeleCz3enZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>> Tom, >>> >>> You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what additional >>> data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another >>> Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off >>> these >>> college loans. I think I should have them paid by 2046. >>> >>> Thanks for your input. >>> >> >> >> Please tell me it is not that dreaded school in Ann Arbor.you know,

"Wm Shakespeare Smithers" <The WordSmith> wrote in message news:376dnVqyJbgqLz3eRVn-sg@comcast.com... > By the way, in case you didn't know the Lions play in one of the toughest > conferences and except for some of the "Football Factories", they had an > undefeated season. ; ) > > Sat 09/17/05 Fordham Bronx, N.Y. W, 23-17 > Sat 09/24/05 DUQUESNE Lawrence A. Wien Stadium W, 23-13 > Sat 10/01/05 Princeton* Princeton, N.J. L, 43-3 > Sat 10/08/05 Lafayette Easton, Pa. Lafayette TV Network L, 14-7 > Sat 10/15/05 PENN* (H) Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 16-44 > Sat 10/22/05 Dartmouth* Hanover, N.H. YES Network L, 17-6 > Sat 10/29/05 YALE* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 37-3 > Sat 11/05/05 HARVARD* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium L, 55-7 > Sat 11/12/05 Cornell* Ithaca, N.Y. L, 45-7 > Sat 11/19/05 BROWN* Lawrence A. Wien Stadium YES Network L, 55-21 > > > This has been their best year in over 50 yrs. They trounced Fordham and > Duquesne (whoever the hell they are) > > > > " JimH" <me1@aol.com> wrote in message > news:3bmdnZwpNYqCMj3eRVn-vw@comcast.com... >> >> "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" <The WordSmith> wrote in message >> news:vNCdndPNY_y5Mz3eRVn-gg@comcast.com... >>> JimH, >>> >>> You sound like you are jealous of a good football team. ; ) >> >> >> Jealous? How funny! Remind me again...who won this year's *big* >> game and when was the last National Championship that team with the ugly >> football helmet won? >> >> >>> >>> Remember the movie the Big Chill? >> >> >> Yep.....and they also made fun of the ugly football helmet. >> >> But they were also all potheads. Is that the connection you are trying >> to make? ;-) >> >> >>> >>> >>> " JimH" <me1@aol.com> wrote in message >>> news:Oc6dnfduqd2sPD3eRVn-pA@comcast.com... >>>> >>>> "Wm Shakespeare Smithers" <The WordSmith> wrote in message >>>> news:7tqdnQ9uVeleCz3enZ2dnUVZ_tOdnZ2d@comcast.com... >>>>> Tom, >>>>> >>>>> You have peaked my interest enough that I am going to see what >>>>> additional >>>>> data I can find. I have two kids in college, one at Columbia another >>>>> Michigan, so I am looking at a way to keep my two cars, till I pay off

Nothing yet from the dealership.

Eisboch

As to the test, I think it was poorly designed and proved nothing.

The reason I am asking is most people will keep their diesel engines till the end of the earth, and they will commonly be rebuilt, so the mechanic can see if the additive caused any problems.

Gas engines on the other hand are not kept as long, and it is hard to tell if the additive helped or hurt the engine.

Even with your positive experience, unless I see some scientific studies, I am going to hope the oil manufactures are providing the best product available with the best combination of additives. I would think they have checked out Lucas to see if it improved the performance of their oil.

Foam is mostly air, and air doesn't lubricate all that well.

I'm just suspicious of the whole test - it didn't seem very controlled and appeared to be designed to prove a point rather than be a true experiment on viscosity.

Why stop with John? I'm sure we could find some other worthy candidates.

Putting all the half baked conspiracy theories aside, if additives are such a good thing, why aren't the major producers already adding them? They are already using the additives that research has shown to either be helpful or are necessary. They have vast resources for development and testing, and would do just about anything to get a leg up on the competition. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Always liked that nice minty smell of Marvel Mystery Oil however, and my old Atomic 4 seemed to do OK being winterized with it.

I am not a mechanical engineer, and I don't play one in Usenet, so my knowledge base is very limited in this matter. The real reason I finally gave up on all the additives is because I felt that any additive that would really provide an oil company with a superior product, would be added to their blend.

The reviews by mechanical engineers have always agreed with this, but that does not mean Lucas Oil Stabilizer is not the wonder additive, but I would be concerned about anything that caused my oil to foam up.

I can build a 6x2x6 box and make oil foam under high rpm - it proves nothing.

It's a faulty experiment.

I know guys who mix Marvel Mystery Oil in their gas at 200/1 too - never been convinced that works either. :>)

When it was running that is. :>)

Given this, running empty at 7200 pounds a bad tank would yield mid 14's (rare) and a good one would yield about 17 mpg (also rare). 15-16 is the norm. Like I said, pretty much the same results with both trucks. I absolutely believe the quality of the fuel varies from tank to tank and is responsible for most of the fluctuation in mileage between tanks. With the 7.3 towing a 14k pound boat and trailer 65-70 mph I'd get about 8.5 mpg. Haven't really towed the boat with the 6.0 yet. Sounds really crummy till you realize that it's a 50% improvement over the 7.4 liter Suburban I previously owned running empty or only towing a 10k pound boat and trailer. No complaints from me.

I agree with you on the fuel, but I normally tank up at a local truck stop that has plenty of fresh fuel and if I stick with that fueling station, my mileage seems to increase. I do use additives to help with the C-tane rating and I can adjust the computer remotely if I need the extra HP or not which also helps the gas mileage.

In this climate, fuel can contain as much as 25% kerosene in the winter which can also affect hp and mileage. I do know that my mileage decreases in the winter significantly - the around town mileage averages around 13/14 during the coldest periods and the highway drops to 17/19 depending.

I have just under 100K on the 7.3 liter engine and nary a problem or burp.

I really can't complain - it's been a good, solid, efficient truck.

Highway driving, up to 65 mph, unloaded and not towing: 18-19 mpg. Highway driving 65-75 mph, unloaded and not towing: 17-18 mpg.

General around town driving: 16 mpg

Highway towing 5000 lbs: 15-15.5 mpg. Highway towing - 12,500 lbs. (Fifth wheel) 10.8-11.3 mpg.

I don't have a heavy foot and rarely "tromp on it".

I've noticed that since winter arrived the mileage has dropped by 1 or 2 mpg. I understand that this is due to the winter blend of diesel fuel used around here that contains anti-gelling additives and also lowers the amount of btu's in the fuel.

The technicians that worked on the truck last month in Georgia told me that the 6.0L can put out another 100 horsepower with a performance chip. I'll never bother with it since when it runs it has all the power I need.

Eisboch

I absolutely love my 2000 F-250 and I wouldn't trade the 7.3. for anything. I still think I can out pull a 6.0, but we'll never know. :>)

Later,

Tom

I read and lost the post where you said you used the Lucas Oil Stabilizer, and found it to be a great additive. 15 yrs ago I used to use Slick 50, and thought I got better gas mileage and Slick 50 said it protected better than regular oil. Unfortunately, it also clogged up engine.

You are obviously smarter than the average person. You obviously are very mechanically inclined. Didn't that report make you wonder if the additive was protecting the engine and components when the engine was running at high RPM?

Examples please. I've found their car recommendations to be right on the mark, audio equipment less so.

It's got 113,000 miles on it. BUT, today I had to take it in for a new clutch. I figure it's good for another 100,000. -- John Herring

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular, and your New Year even Better!

Hope your Christmas is Spectacular, and your New Year even Better!

Thanks,

Eisboch

Eisboch

Here's what the FICM looks like:

http://dan.prxy.org/Truck/6L_bible_html/html/Page_010.html

I'd be interested to hear what the current diagnosis is, as well as the dealer's remedy.

With cars, though, I think they're between a rock and a hard place. Some people like to slam their reliability surveys because they primarily cover very young cars. But, how long does the average buyer keep a car? Is it that easy to find a large sample of people whose cars have reached 100,000 miles?

For things like appliances, I don't think it's possible to do any better. But, the magazine *does* educate some readers about features they might not have otherwise considered. This is important because considering the low quality of most retail staff, you might never hear about these features in the stores.

It ain't perfect, but I have yet to hear anyone come up with constructive suggestions.

It was a smart move having the truck towed to the selling dealer. It sounds like they will do whatever it takes to make things right and put your bad luck behind you.

If you haven't found this place already, here's what I consider the best of the Ford Truck forums:

http://forums.thedieselstop.com/ubbthreads/

And to a lesser extent:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

In 36,000 miles and 1 year it had the following repairs:

brake pads and rotors replaced 4 times (rotors kept warping)

fan clutch replaced 2 times

HVAC repaired 3 times they finally found the orifice was missing from the system, the darn thing would only blow cold air while traveling on the interstate, any time you went to in town traffic mode it blew hot air.

Radio quit 2 times.

So I traded it on my 96 Subaru Outback and so far it has never been in for any repairs.

My 00 GMC has had the transfer case replaced, the steering gearbox replaced and the P/S pump replaced (all under warranty) since then it has been a truly reliable vehicle.

I wish you well with your Ford quality issues.

I suspect a problem again with the high pressure oil pump that was replaced when it died last month in Savannah. I noticed that there was a small pool of very clear oil-like fluid under the engine. I am guessing, but I think it may be the oil used in the high pressure pump that actuates the fuel injectors.

Surprisingly the salesman that sold me the truck showed up at the dealership as we were unloading it, even though they were closed. He has promised to make it right, including a full price credit for another truck if I want. He acknowledged that some of the 6.0 L engines had problems and he wanted to check and record the build date of my truck, which turned out to be January, 2005. He then said they may replace the whole engine, depending on the build date.

I am going to wait and see what the problem is. It may be something like a connection to the pump that was not tightened properly when it was installed in Savannah - or something like that. If it is another pump failure - then I have to think about a replacement truck or replacement engine. Or a bicycle.

It's been a hell of a week. The day the movers were packing up the Florida house Mrs. E's car got run over by a Federal Express semi-trailer truck just as the auto transport company showed up to take it to MA. Mrs. E's fine, but her little BMW has a hood that looks like an accordian. The next day when I went to pick up the Scout at the storage place I found the gate chained and locked and the telephone service disconnected. They had gone bankrupt the day before and were apparently in court receivership. I got into the yard by following a guy who opened the gate and drove in. Turns out he was a mechanic who used to work there and was picking up his tools. When he opened the gate, I pulled up right behind him and blocked the gate so they couldn't close it. It was quite a scene as I hooked up the boat trailer while people were yelling at me that I couldn't take it. I did, but it's quite a story.

Eisboch

Eisboch

I would have purchased a new diesel a couple of years ago, but I wanted to stick with the 7.3 because I didn't think the 6 liter was going to hold up - call it intuition I guess.

I'm glad I didn't.

Oh, and that nonsense about Forester having more ground clearance than my F-250?

Talk about marketing propaganda.

They solved that problem years ago.

If you are like me, you will eventually come around to the point of view that you will never buy another Ford product. That has subsequently been modified to "never another non-Japanese vehicle".

Unfortunately Toyota does not yet make a super duty pickup but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually come up with something.

-rick-

I have one and it is a darned nice truck. I won't bore you with the details of my Ford story but needless to say it was not a good one.

Define "fixed". It's hard to fix what was poorly made. Detroit has had so many wake up calls over the last 30 years and they still have not figured it out.

I can't wait for Toyota to start making something comparable to the 350 - and then it's bye bye American brands.

Plus, do you believe another car would have less damage? Subarus are extremely solid. Looks what people race at rallies where you drive these, un modified in many cases, 80 MPH on dirt roads... Show me one American car that could take that abuse...

The real test is how many of the trucks are still on the road 10, 15 and 20 years after they are built.