Blisters 'n microwaves

But that's what makes a horse race. :-)

Indeed a layup that may absorb water might be better than a fully saturated one that won't; because if it's dripping with resin it's likely to be very much compromised strengthwise. These days where material weight & cost demand that hulls be "designed" rather than just follow established practice (read the old idea that thicker must be better) then the strength of a particular laminate can be critical.

I will agree though about "blistering" osmosis or whatever label you use, is probably more a potential worry than an actual worry. Here they have a rejoinder about fibreglass boats "show me the documented case of a substantial boat ever sinking due to blistering" & it's a good question:-)

K

My list of unread messages suddenly dropped in half.

Imagine that. ;-)

Eisboch

You can't go wrong with a Parker or a Grady. I think the Gradys are overpriced, though. But they sure are posh.

25' PARKER 2005 W /C YAMAHA F225 $51,995

Mine is a 2003.

The last time I looked at the dealership, the boat sans trailer was in the $70's with fewer of the more expensive accessories I have. My guess, and it is only a guess, is that it would run about $80K to duplicate Yo Ho.

It contains many of his religious type recordings. Not to imply that I am religious, I just appreciate some classic compositions combined with an excellent rendition and a superb audio recording.

Silverline Records, AAron Neville, "Believe".

Eisboch

Which Parker 25 is it, numnutz?

2500 Special Edition 2501 Center Console 2510 Deep Vee Walkaround 2510 Modified Vee Walkaround 2520 SLD Sport Cabin 2520 SL Sport Cabin 2520 XLD Sport Cabin 2520 XL Sport Cabin 2530 Extended Cabin

That's what? Nine different models? You think they are all the same, and priced all the same?

Stick to what you know, Hertvik, whatever that is. You keep it a mystery .

http://www.mp3.com/albums/568593/summary.html

There was an often referenced demonstration where somebody built a fiberglass box, filled it with water, and bonded an air-tight top. It sat in a classroom under daily observation, and no water was ever seen leaking out. When the box was opened, several months later, it was bone dry. I can't honestly say whether the box in the experiment was covered with gelcoat, paint, or consisted of exosed glass cloth

That's far different from a theory that gelcoat.... (which is more porous than the laminate itself, causing the water that penetrates it to stop or slow down when it reaches the laminate below and hang around long enough to foster chemical reactions that produce the gas that creates blisters)... waterproofs the laminate to prevent leaking.

According to this observation from Pascoe's essay on blisters:

"Blistering involves only the gel coat and surface mat in 99% of the cases. This is due to the fact that the structural fabrics, such as roving, get saturated better. Its also because the water is less likely to penetrate beyond the mat and, even if it does, woven fabrics do not have the weak gel coat factor and are much too strong to allow whatever pressure may develop within a void to cause a separation. The incidence of blisters occurring within structural laminates is extremely small."

It would make more sense to use the structural laminate to "waterproof" the gelcoat than to say that the gelcoat somehow seals or waterproofs the laminate.

A vinylester barrier has proven to be extremely effective in reducing, and in many cases eliminating, the tendency for FRP hulls to blister.

Could be, but we left the Cheapeake in late October and were happy to be heading further south. The days weren't too bad but once it gets into the 40s at night it's time to fly. Even the Carolinas were getting chilly at night, and it didn't feel truly warm until we got to the Fernandina Beach/St Augestine area in early November.

The only specific you don't know (assuming the boat is in the shape I've claimed) is engine hours, and I've stated those are significantly less than those of the other Parkers described here the last few days.

What else do you need to know to make an offer?

Eisboch

BTW: He posed the statement about the deductions being only for the rich.

Have a nice day John.

Look in the mirror lately Krause?

Funny that you never commented on his troll and continued arguing.

Regardless, I recall you having a bad *month* with calling Harry a word I shall not repeat with every post you made to him.

My point is that we all have our bad days John and you being my netmommy is not appreciated.

I'm not saying water would "flow" as such, but certainly it will seep into the glass & definitely damage it over time.

On the other side if anyone did actually wet the layup enough that it was truly water "proof" then it would be a very weakened laminate, overly heavy & expensive waste of resin.

The best fix thus far is a good outer barrier usually of vinyl ester resins in conjunction with a tissue tie layer. Even inside you need flowcoat or such to stop the laminate being too porous from that direction.

K

1. I am powerless over trolling-my life has become unmanageable. 2. I believe a power greater than myself has made me this way, and I am not responsible for my behavior. Harry is responsible. 3. I have made a decision to turn my will and my life over to the care of RepubliGod as I understood him. 4. I have made a searching and fearless moral inventory of myself, and discovered that I couldn't count...

And so on.

Stay tuned for the next installment of the The Reverands.

"Hi! My name is (Jim, John, whatever), and I am a newsgroup troller. I have gone (one, two, 10, 30) days without insulting anyone."

In about the year 1999 a new breed of Troll appeared who have the declared intention of destroying a specific Target newsgroup. This is done by a variety of posts, (see Section 4) intended to drive normal posters away from the specific newsgroup.

When the percentage of Troll posts, including followups exceeds about 75% of the total posts, most readers seem to just give up and unsubscribe. Subject: 5.1 Ignore them and they will go away.

Better yet, why not put them in the KF and stop their fun?

I should be more mellow today. One of my kids sent me a collection of Neville Brothers CDs, and I've been listening to Aaron Neville telling it like it is.

My wife and I have an acquaintance, a nice enough fellow, but one whose mouth keeps getting him into trouble. He's always commenting on the relationships of others, and he's almost always wrong, but he keeps on with his "pronouncements." My wife nicknamed him "JimWit," a play on "dimwit." It's too back the nickname is taken.

I don't know what Herring is looking for, but I suspect he wants a Parker at a firesale price. It's too bad, because had he made me a respectable offer, I probably would have accepted it.

Your experience with the leaking keel is a good example. After several groundings, you noticed some water seeping into the bilge through the keelson. The couple of layers and cloth you applied for a fix went well beyond a simple gelcoat repair.

I think you could strip all the gelcoat entirely off a boat and it would still float. If the fibers were adequately wetted out with resin, the hull wouldn't even absorb water (or "wick" it around). That seems to be where we disagree.

As you know, there are some premium manufacturers who don't even use gelcoat on their fiberglass boats. If the mold is perfect enough, one can get by with paint rather than gelcoat. Gelcoat is an easy workaround for imperfectly finished molds, as it tends to hide various sins while paint tends to magnify them.

That'd work. So would a laser.

I wonder if playing really awful music, very loud, would drive blisters away? Would that work better if the speakers were inside the boat or outside?

DSK

I would not let any crack or gouge in gelcoat go unrepaired. Particularly under the water line.

"For the rich????????"

Was that really supposed to be more than rhetorical?

You're trying with Harry, now you're trying with dhohara. Why not knock it off?

Jeeeesh!

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/BuyingBlisterBoat.htm

Thanks guy!

You should ask yourself why you facilitate both of these newsgroup troublemakers.

Thanks

David

Gelcoat ( essentially a layer of tinted resin) is somewhat porous. You may be thinking of a barrier coat, not the gelcoat. When the term "osmotic blister" is applied, the osmosis is the passage of water through the gelcoat, not through the laminate. Plastic doesn't absorb water, so if there are no voids in an FRP hull it isn't ever going to become "waterlogged".

When I refer to "fairing", that's the same process you describe above with the filler.

Happy New Year

One of our local yards does a very good job of blister repair. Their process involves a peel job and then the application of a few layers of vinylester laminate under a new barrier coat. They put a lifetime warranty on the process, and in ten years they have had only one or two boats back for a re-do. They are the local exception.

Most blister repairs fail. Some sooner than others. The good news is, for the vast majority of blisters there is absolutely no reason beyond cosmetics to deal with them at all. 99% of the time they are out of sight below the waterline.

I had a batch of chine blisters that I dealt with two or three bottom paint jobs ago. Just sanded them flat, let them dry for a few hours, faired them out, and slapped on the bottom paint. Cost was less than $100. I fully expect to see those same blisters back again some day (but maybe not).and if I do I'll spend another $100 to deal with them. That's much better than spending $10,000 or $20,000 or maybe more to deal with them and *still* having them reappear in the future.

Delamination, of course, is another and very serious problem. Blistering does not "progress" to delam, although in very rare cases blistering may be an indication of an underlying delam problem. Got delam? You're going to have to deal with it whether you see blisters or not. Got blisters without delam? No big deal. Taking a drastic course to remove them would be like spending $20,000 to have a surgeon remove a benign mole from your butt cheek- it isn't hurting a darn thing and almost nobody will ever see it.

What are the other heating possibilities other than microwaves that require shielding? Magnetic resonance device or something similar?

Clearly there was a path there originally but how much did that excess pressure open it up or delaminate the layup even more???

It seems to me the best way to remove moisture from osmosis effected glass is to use an electronic moisture finder (they have them specially for GRP & most boat surveyors have one in their kit) that way you can draw the shape of the moisture then limit your drying activities to that effected area only. Drying causes damage no matter how you do it, by heat, by grinding, by peeling etc.

As for the microwave idea I guess it's possible however you'd need huge power to heat a boat hull even a not so big one. A tiny domestic kitchen microwave which is properly shielded, insulated etc, has the beam directed precisely at the target, has the target rotate so the tiny beam can get at all of it over time & they use bulk watts with lots of loss. I guess another consideration might be any other water in there??? with a boat, even small amounts if boiled when enclosed, could again generate huge force & consequent damage??

It's a loopy idea on first pass, but not that much more so than some others that people have spent huge amounts on. The hull peeling is another as far as I'm concerned.

K

Induction heating? Nope - needs to be a metal.

Big ass oven? Maybe - wouldn't need to set the temp too high to dry out water, but might require a long bake.

I know! A scanning CO2 chemical laser! You could program it to scan the whole hull, similar to the prop measuring systems, except much higher power.

I watched a guy finish the edges of saw cut, 4" thick bluestone by spraying water from a mist spray bottle until the edge surface of the bluestone was saturated, then immediately heating it with an oxygen/acetylene torch. Bluestone is very porous and absorbs the water. The torch then heated the water very rapidly so it boiled and converted to steam before it could drain out of the bluestone. The water basically "exploded" in a micro way, leaving the bluestone edges with a natural, weathered, micro sandblasted appearance.

Eisboch

The best cure is simply not to buy a boat with an osmotic blister problem. I know this flies in the face of the advice of boat salesmen, owners of boats, and others with a stake in the used boat business, but better osmotic acne remain *their* problem, and not yours.

I do not mean to ignore your questions and apologize if I did. I simply did not understand the question. It may have been obvious to you but I missed it somehow.

Even my twenty foot runabout cuddy would have qualified for the credit before I tore out the sink, ice maker and alcohol stove. Regardless, I paid cash for the deal and do not qualify.

Do you now understand my point?

Google Groups is being very balky tonite.