Bahamas Boycott over Pleasure Boat Cruising Permits
All pleasure boats entering the Bahamas must now purchase at their first
Port of Entry a $150 cruising permit for boats up to 35 feet and $300
for boats over 35 feet *each year*. Paying $300 just to enter a port for
an annual visit is a rip and should be boycotted by cruisers. This "fee"
was imposed by black Bahamian politicians because they believe the
Floriduh boaters cruising the 90 miles to visit their islands are all
rich and should be made to pay for their suffering on the islands. Actually, any Bahamian entering any Floriduh business such as a Publix,
Piggly Wiggly, or even an area hospital should be charged a $300 use fee
just for entering the premises. The fee can be used for manatee
protection...--
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
2006
|
| Road & Track tested the Mustang GT in the December 2004 issue. |
RG
Jan 8
|
| Skipper, didn't this happen two and a half years ago? I'm not trying to be obnoxious
here, but what prompted the anger now instead of long ago?
|
JohnH
Jan 8
|
| Then, perhaps, you should move to the Bahamas. It's a well known tax
haven with no income taxes. As a matter of fact, it has: * No personal or company income tax
* No capital gains tax
* No with holding tax
* No business tax
* No estate tax
* No gift tax
* No inheritance tax
* No death duties
* No employment tax
* No sales taxes
* No exchange controls
* No tax treaties and ...
* No probate fees in the Bahamas.
From:
http://www.dunway.com/taxhaven/html/bahamas.html But it does have a pesky $150-300 entry fee for cruisers. > And I think allowing this targeted abuse against boaters without
> retaliation just encourages more of the same in the future. Have you considered what it would cost for a 30' Bahamian boat with four
people aboard to come to Florida and fish? The last time I looked, a
non-resident Florida fishing license was over $30. Let's see, 4 people at
$30 . . . Hmm, maybe the Bahamian fees were in retaliation. |
thunder
Jan 8
|
| Hmmmm, is that for one or two dippings of the line into Floriduh waters
for 30 bucks? --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 8
|
| Lots o' dem grunts and croakers in Floriduh, huh? --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 8
|
| Ray, people will come, Ray. They'll come to Iowa for reasons they can't
even fathom. They'll turn up your driveway not knowing for sure why
they're doing it. They'll arrive at your door as innocent as children,
longing for the past. Of course, we won't mind if you look around,
you'll say. It's only $20 per person. They'll pass over the money
without even thinking about it: for it is money they have and peace they
lack. And they'll walk out to the bleachers; sit in shirtsleeves on a
perfect afternoon. They'll find they have reserved seats somewhere along
one of the baselines, where they sat when they were children and cheered
their heroes. And they'll watch the game and it'll be as if they dipped
themselves in magic waters. The memories will be so thick they'll have
to brush them away from their faces. People will come Ray. The one
constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has
rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a
blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
This field, this game: it's a part of our past, Ray. It reminds of us of
all that once was good and it could be again. Oh... people will come
Ray. People will most definitely come. - Terence Mann to Ray Kinsella --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 8
|
| I am glad you agree that it is fair to charge those people to watch
baseball in Iowa. Just like it is fair to charge the cruisers who dive
in the local waters, catch local fish and "bugs", and fill their tanks
with water and many times empty their holding tanks into their crystal
clear water.
|
Reggie
Jan 8
|
| This thread reminded me of something. For many years I had a slip (sometimes two) in the town of Scituate, MA.
The town maintains a town owned marina and there are also several private
marinas within the confines of Scituate Harbor. Each year we paid our slip
fees that included electricity, paid a non -resident excise tax yearly to
the town based on the value of your boat and a separate fee called a "water
usage fee". It never occurred to me that this was strange as it applied to
all of the marinas, town and private, but I always dutifully paid the fee
assuming it was for the use of fresh water at the dock. Well, it turns out
water was included in the slip fees at all the marinas and the "water usage"
fee was something the town had imposed to collect additional revenues. It
was justified (sort of) by claiming that it helped offset the costs of
maintaining the harbor waterways or some boloney. The proverbial s--- hit
the fan when the long time harbormaster retired and the town appointed a new
one. Seems many of the people had ignored the water usage fee for years
because they felt it was not legal. (The retired harbormaster was much more
of a people person than a town administration flunky and had never enforced
the collection of the water usage fee). The town proceeded to send threatening letters to those that had not paid
the fee for years, demanding retro payment or the town would take them to
court. Several of my friends recieved such a letter and in many cases the
amount demanded was over 3,000.00. All of them told the town to suck a
lemon and go ahead with legal action. I moved my boat to another marina the year this was going on. I don't know
what the outcome was, but I'll contact a couple of the people involved and
find out. Eisboch |
Eisboch
Jan 8
|
| While you're doing that, and if you take Road and Track, see if you can find which
issue had the test of the 2005 Mustang GT. Please?
|
JohnH
Jan 8
|
|
A legitimate thread whose perpetrator introduced racism? |
Harry
Jan 8
|
| Yeah, actually it is reggie. I'll admit it, I had a bit of a snoot
full and it seemed humorous at the time. But, no matter, Skipper's
racism, and history of blatant racism, is no excuse. And the fact
that you have been a master of multiple personalities, and a wizard of
personal insults directed toward those you don't agree with, doesn't
forgive the personal insult I directed towards Skipper. No matter
your, nor Skipper's, actions on this board, I shouldn't have made the
comment about Ms. Piggly Wiggly. bb |
bb
Jan 9
|
| Whatever you say Snippy. I probably do more boating every year than
you have done in your lifetime. |
Wayne.B
Jan 8
|
| I took it to mean that the black officials voted for the fees and the white
officials didn't. Is it a fact that *all* the government officials in the
Bahamas are black? |
JohnH
Jan 8
|
| Sorry. I only read about fast cars. Eisboch :-) |
Eisboch
Jan 8
|
| --
John H. "Divide each difficulty into as many parts as is feasible and necessary to resolve it."
Rene Descartes |
JohnH
Jan 8
|
| ====== Dang, who would have guessed. All the time I was thinking that he had
a legitimate issue that was keeping him from cruising the Bahamas. My
guess that the Bahamian's instituted the charges to discourage the
riff raff who were trying to go there on the cheap and live off the
land. Looks like they got one. It's nice of him to be concerned about my expenses though. :-) |
Wayne.B
Jan 7
|
| There is a legitimate and ongoing boycott of the Bahamas over this
issue. Goggle Bahamas boycott or check what Boat US has to say on the
subject. --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
|
| == A Skookum is not a sportfish, it is a long range cruiser. Different
beast. Given that fully loaded costs include amortization,
maintenance, dockage and insurance, I'd be willing to bet that the
costs of running one are higher than you'd think. What is your experience with costs for a 40 to 50 ft sportfish? Sorry, I had trouble hearing that. Here are my numbers for a used 50 ft Hatt: Purchase price $300K, annualized amortization around $40K Annual insurance, 12 months, tropics - about $5K Fuel at 50 gph, 300 hours/yr, 15,000 gals, about $40K at today's
prices. Dockage at $800/mo, $10K/yr Maintenance, approx $20/hour, 6K/yr @ 300 hrs So far we are at just over $100K/yr with no bottom painting, cleaning,
waxing, and no major overhauls. Dividing $100K by 300 hours, I'm getting about $330/hour. The only significant savings with a Skookum are for fuel and
maintenance. The rest is about the same. |
Wayne.B
Jan 7
|
| Well then, let's compare a Gulfstar 50 ketch. Are you contending it also
costs $330/hour for the run over to the Bahamas? The subject here,
Wayne, is the extraordinary fee Bahamian politicians are imposing on
recreational boaters. Is that same fee imposed on cruiseship passengers?
As a recreational boater, you should be supporting the boycott. --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
|
| >As a recreational boater, you should be supporting the boycott. ====== It would be like peeing into the wind. My point was that $300 to the Bahamas is small potatoes in the grand
scheme of things, and I still believe that. Regarding the Gulfstar 50 ketch, if you tell me purchase price,
primary usage location and annual hours, I could give you a fairly
accurate hourly cost. It will be quite a bit higher than you think. I don't particularly like doing these excercises because I enjoy my
boats a lot more if I don't hear the cash register jingling in the
background when I'm using them. |
Wayne.B
Jan 7
|
| Hey Snipper, if a $300 fee keeps you out of the cruising ground, I'd
suggest they increase it to $600, just to make sure I don't run into
you and your friends. I'd definitely pony up a bit more of my
cruising kitty so the anchorages are less crowded with freeloaders. bb |
bb
Jan 8
|
| Piggly Wiggly fee? So now you expect Florida to impose a fee on
Bahamians who take your wife for a ride, just because they expect
cruisers to foot some of the expenses imposed on the Bahamian's due to
their cruising life style? Get real, dude. bb |
bb
Jan 8
|
| Frankly, I think that was the whole idea. It also cuts down on the
daytrippers and weekenders in 20 ft boats. |
Wayne.B
Jan 7
|
| Thanks for the info, though it certainly won't do Skipper any good. He's
not cruising to the Bahamas or anywhere else. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| You won't encounter Skipper cruising anywhere. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| >> > It also cuts down on the
> daytrippers and weekenders in 20 ft boats. That was the whole point. Daytrippers (particularly those who are fishing)
deplete the resources without putting a penny into the Bahamian economy.
They want people to stay and spend money. |
NOYB
Jan 8
|
| Ya know, I was wondering the same thing. Here is a legitimate thread, providing
information for both sides. But, it has to be drug down by a few who can't resist
going to attack mode. Un-real! As for the thread, no, cruise ship passengers aren't required to pay a fee to get off
the ship onto a Bahama Island.
|
JohnH
Jan 8
|
| The beauty about the tax, is you and anyone else who does not want to
pay the tax, just just avoid going to the Bahamas, If enough people
"boycott" the Bahamas, then they will resend the tax. My feeling is it
will stop some of the "cruisers" who anchor in the Bahamas for the
winter, but don't really spend much money locally. My feeling is those
who are contributing to the local economy really won't care about the
$300 tax. They will consider the $300 tax a pittance to the money they
will spend in gas, fishing and entertainment they spend in the Bahamas. I think the $300 tax is doing exactly what the Bahamians wanted when
they set up the tax. Discourage the boaters and cruisers who were not
spending money in the Bahamas, from utilizing the services and natural
beauty of the islands.
|
Reggie
Jan 8
|
| Wayne,
I figured that Skipper was trolling for a boating discussion. It really
doesn't matter if he will ever go to the Bahamas or if most of us will ever
bring out boats there. His post encourages On Topic posts, even if you
disagree with him. |
Reggie
Jan 8
|
| I see very little "beauty" in *any* additional taxes. Matter of fact, I |
Skipper
Jan 8
|
| Wayne's posit illustrates precisely what is wrong with Floriduh boating
today. Look no further than Fort Lauderdale, even his $300,000 Hatts are
being pushed out in favor of megayachts and condos. There was nothing in
his posit that supports the boating culture or boaters in general. And
saddest of all, he really doesn't care... --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 8
|
| Skipper,
Have you contacted your senators and congressman? A usage fee charged
to those who use a service provided by the government is the fairest way
to pay for governmental services. Since boaters do utilize the local
infrastructure and services (ie police, coast guard, roads, water etc)
and many bring all of their own food and do not spend money at the local
restaurants, hotels, casinos etc. to me it makes sense for them to
charge boaters a "usage fee". If you are against the concept of usage fee, it would make more sense
for you to lobby against motel/hotel, airport and rental car taxes used
in most American Cities. They are the exact some "usage fee" that the
Bahamians charge boaters. The Bahamians might say the usage fee is their
retaliation against our exorbitant taxes we impose on their citizens.
; )
|
Reggie
Jan 8
|
| congrats on being the first killfile member of 2006. an honor richly
deserved... |
DownTime
Jan 8
|
| Jeese, Tampa Bay musta been eliminated. Mercy killing I'd bet. --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 8
|
| Skipper,
I support boating, but I am not sure what you mean by the "boating
culture" if you mean local governments should bow to the demands of
transient boaters, I disagree with you. I would hate to think local
governments would ignore the needs of the locals over the needs of a
cruising community. If the local goverments think transients boaters
are benificial to the local economy they will encourage the transients
to come to their area. If they do not, it makes sense for them to
impose a "usage fee" on those using their services. A similar comparison would be if RV users demanded that all communities
in beautiful areas or popular tourist areas demanded local governments
provide free parking for their RV's. It is not reasonable for the
RV'ers or the Cruisers to expect to utilize anchorage or parking without
a fee.
|
Reggie
Jan 8
|
| "...*black* Bahamian politicians..." Nice bit of racism there. I'm certain cruisers everywhere will heed your admonition, Skipper, but
why is the fee of any concern to you? It's not as if you cruise to the
Bahamas or anywhere else. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| To all members of this newsgroup:
Per our agreement, please ignore this transparent attempt to sabotage our
new accord to remain well-mannered. William |
William
Jan 7
|
| And it's even worse than that: http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/Bahamas/?rc=Formalities The way I read it, it's $300 for just two visits *within 90 days* or
$500 to extend. --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
|
| Wow! Remind me not to take my boat to the Bahamas any time soon!
|
JohnH
Jan 7
|
| Then your admonishment is a post late. Besides the post's racist intent,
I wasn't aware that "Floriduh" was the well-mannered name for that
southern state. |
thunder
Jan 7
|
| The post was not intended to be racist, but reflective of the
inspiration for the racist fee. It was black Bahamian politicians who
fought for the outrageous fees...and their rationale for the fees have
been well documented in newspapers at the time of the Bahamian debate.
Check it out...unless you believe we "owe" them. And about Floriduh, well Floriduh is Floriduh, and West is best, IMO.
Your mileage may differ. Now, if you believe the Bahamian cruising fee of $300 is justified or
that Floriduh is not Floriduh, make you case. I'll then make mine and
we'll see where the chips fall. --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
|
| " The post was not intended to be racist... , but reflective of the
inspiration for the racist fee. It was black Bahamian politicians who
> fought for the outrageous fees... > Skipper racist. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| So what? The Bahamas are a parliamentary democracy. Its people through the
leaders they elect are entitled to impose whatever fees they wish on
transients. If you think the fees are too high, don't take your
imaginary boat there. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| Maybe you should heed your own advice! |
Don
Jan 7
|
| Skippy,
Still trolling I see!!!! |
FREDO
Jan 7
|
That's all old news. It's their country and they set the rules. If
you go for 3 weeks it works out to about $15 a day and includes
fishing licenses for everyone on the boat. In the grand scheme of
cruising on a decent sized boat, $15 a day is peanuts compared to
diesel, dockage, maintenance, etc. Fully loaded operating costs for a
sportfish in the 40 to 50 ft range are well over $100/hour. |
Wayne.B
Jan 7
|
| I favor serving a little reciprocal Piggly Wiggly fee on the Bahamians,
do you? Why should we not reciprocate? --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
|
| That $300 entry fee is over and above all other expenses and is not
insignificant for most recreational boaters. The fee is very much like a
reverse poll tax and effectively closes these waters to many boaters.
I'm in favor of open access to recreational waters. > Fully loaded operating costs for a sportfish in the 40 to 50 ft range
> are well over $100/hour. Tough beans, most recreational cruising boats in the 40' to 50' range
are able to operate for much less than $100 per hr. What would you judge
the operational costs to run a Skookum 53 ketch over to Aruba? --
Skipper |
Skipper
Jan 7
|
| Skipper's trolling. To pay the fee, you'd actually have to go there in a
boat. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
