I'm about to join the four-stroke engine club
The port engine on my Grady quit running while heading back in last week.
The problem was diagnosed as a faulty low pressure fuel pump. It's a pretty
inexpensive part, so I told the dealer to replace it and the five other ones
as a precaution.But that same day, the owner of the dealership called to pitch me on
four-strokes. With my old motors as trade, and reusing my existing gauges
and binnacle, it became pretty cost effective to replace the old
two-strokes. I figured that the fuel (gas and oil) savings alone should
be about $3-4000/year. But more importantly, I'm going from a 5 year old
motor with no warranty, to a brand new motor with a 3-year warranty. I may not keep the boat the 7 years it would take to recoup (in gas money)
the additional cost of upgrading. But if something major went on the
two-strokes in the next couple of years, I'm way ahead with the new engines.
Also, if I sell the boat in 4 or 5 years to upgrade to a different boat, I
figure it would be much more marketable with 4 or 5 year four-strokes, than
9 or 10 year old two-strokes. I'll be sure to post performance data on the engines vs. the old ones once I
get past the break-in. The new engines are twin Yamaha F250 four-strokes. |
NOYB
May 22
2006
|
| You are correct.
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 23
|
| Is the 300 going to have the same block? If not, it will be heavier and
add even more to the load. Bigger motors burn more fuel at all RPM's so how do you think you will
save $$? Dan |
Dan
May 23
|
| Do you actually read posts before you comment? I didn't say I was looking to save money. I am looking to run 30 mph at
4000 rpm. I expect my fuel burn will be a bit more than the 10-11 gph I
burn now at cruise, but not much more. The 300, I am told, has a totally new block, and is not a punched-out
F225/F250. This is all conjecture, anyway. I'm mellow about it. You should be, too. |
Harry
May 23
|
| I t can happen. In the 1970's, the Honda 750 motorcycle got better mileage than
the smaller 550. Terry & Skipper, Clearlake Texas |
Mys
May 23
|
| Harry, you sound like an American with too much money to spend. Wouldn't
running at 3500 rpm and getting 25 mph be much more practical? You sound like I did before I bought that Mustang.
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 23
|
| PS. Are there any crabcake sandwiches better than that $20 bugger at
Stoney's in Brooms Island? My wife wants a crabcake sandwich for our 20th
anniversary tomorrow.
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 23
|
| Harry, Are you aware that the F250 is a totally new block and not the same as the
F200-F225 block? The 2004 F200-F225 block was also totally new and not compatible with the
2002-03 block of the same size. Bill Grannis
service manager |
Billgran
May 23
|
| Rough night? Of course I read the posts but I think that was two questions and one
comment based solely on one of the questions. So you want to buy a bigger motor for a boat you want to sell and spend
more on fuel, too. Or you just really like 30 mph at 4000 rpms and are willing to repower
to get that all to happen. Thanks for the clarification, and I'm very mellow. Dan |
Dan
May 24
|
| I think Annapolis Seafood has better cakes, at half the price, but not
much ambiance.
Digiovanni's Dock Of The Bay in Solomons is also better than Stoneys,
though I have not had crabcakes there. |
Harry
May 23
|
| I wasn't aware of that. Thanks. |
Harry
May 23
|
| Nah. I wouldn't buy a Mustang. |
Harry
May 23
|
| Sure. And 2006 Ford F-150 will get about the same gas mileage with a
V-6 or a V-8 if the trucks are both empty. Boats are a bit different
but all that really matters is that Harry isn't trying to save gas money
so his response to Smither's questions is yet another mystery. |
Dan
May 24
|
| Gotta be crabcakes, and I'm not taking chances at Didiovanni's. Don't you
know some little dive place on the Patuxent that has crabcakes *and*
ambience? I can't take her to a damn grocery store for our anniversary!
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 23
|
| Harry's gonna get in trouble for braggin' !
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 23
|
| No, I might want to buy a bigger motor for a boat I might not sell. |
Harry
May 23
|
| I never said I was trying to save gas money in re: this idea. |
Harry
May 23
|
| Don't worry too much joining the four stroke club. Now that you're well into your thirties, it isn't all that unusual to
require four strokes to develop the same sort of motive power that you
can remember from the glory days when two strokes were sufficient. As
the hull gets heavier and slower and picks up a few nicks and barnacles
it is very common to require a four stroke to sustain performance. The good news is that reports from satisfied users of the four stroke
models indicate a general impression that the ride is more
sophisticated, refined, and somewhat smoother than the high speed two
stroke units. A two stroke is just perfect if your intention is to
sprint as quickly as possible to the finish line, but for a long
sustained run you will discover that the four stroke has a number of
advantages. Like the outboard repairman once told me:
"As long as you can get it started with no more than just a few pulls,
you can continue to get a lot of enjoyable service from a beat up old
Johnson." |
chuckgould.chu...
May 23
|
| John, I rarely order crabcakes. I think the ones at Stoneys are really
overpriced. I don't keep track of them at other places, but my wife
ordered them once at Annapolis Seafood and they were at least as good as
Stoney's. The only restaurant on the Pax I really like is Tony's Riverhouse
in Benedict. 301-274-4440. Benedict is a bitty town on the west side of the Pax River bridge that
connects Calvert and Charles Counties. |
Harry
May 23
|
| I like my 225 Yamaha four stroke for any number of reasons, including: 1. very quiet at idle, trolling and slow cruise speeds.
2. starts instantly, period.
3. no oil mixing.
4. reasonable fuel burn.
5. reliable, so far.
6. no smoke in the air, no oil in the water. |
Harry
May 23
|
| You might feel sicker when you have to buy Yamaha's $25 oil filter for each
oil change. The manual recommends every 6 months or 100 hrs. WHICHEVER COMES
FIRST. It also says to change more often if you do a lot of low speed
running or trolling. |
Billgran
May 23
|
| It's true. With proper lubrication you shouldn't need to add any oil.
:-) |
chuckgould.chu...
May 23
|
| That's one for the quote file. |
-rick-
May 23
|
| That sums up my opinion of my Merc/Yammy 4 stroke. Going on 1500 hours
since 2002 and still doing great with a minimum of maintenance.
Other than a water leak fixed for free on warranty I have basically
just bought foot grease, oil and filters, plus one set of plugs and a
couple impellers I didn't really need.
You do have to "grease" the dealer too now and then. ;-)
I really like them taking these things apart now and then so it is on
my "permanent record" in case something does break. Usually I take
care of my own maintenance. |
gfretwell
May 23
|
| The CD Cafe at Solomons Island is excellent and has a pleasant
ambience as well. I'm pretty sure they have crabcakes but you might want to call and
make sure. We had a great meal there last October on our way south. http://www.chesapeakelifemag.com/tourism/solomons.html |
Wayne.B
May 23
|
| We've been there. I like it too. But, Stoney's made the papers, sometime
back, and the wife thinks it's *the* place to go. Oh well. Thanks for the
time.
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 24
|
| Then try the Stoneys at the end of Broome Island. Head down 4 towards
Solomon's Island, turn right on Broomes Island Road (route 264) and
enjoy a pretty drive to land's end. Best looking Stoneys, right on the Pax. |
Harry
May 24
|
| $50 twice a year? $100 for oil filters per year? Compared to 20 gallons of
E-Tec oil at $40/gallon, it's a no-brainer. |
NOYB
May 24
|
| I saw a pair of those on the new Parker 28-foot pilothouse. Made me glad
Yo Ho runs fine on one engine. Next year, I was told, there may be a new
block Yamaha fourstroke of 300 hp. If so, and if I still have Yo Ho,
I'll trade up. Email me if you will with what you figured you got in trade for the old
engines. |
Harry
May 22
|
| I'm pretty sure I got ripped on the old engines. I'm getting the new
four-strokes installed for $28k out the door. There is some incentive money
from Yamaha right now for rigging on the new engines. He's showing me about
$8k in trade on the old engines, but I'm guessing that he's giving me about
$4-5k in real money. The older 250 two-strokes aren't worth much money right now with fuel prices
as they are. The dealer says that he plans on shipping them to a buyer "in
the islands". Your F225 would be worth quite a bit more on resale, because
everybody wants the four-strokes now. |
NOYB
May 22
|
| I was quoted my F225 and $2500 for a 2006 250 hp, a bit higher than
usual because "Gee, you take really good care of your stuff." I suspect
if there is a 300 hp four stroke next year, I'll have to pop for
$3500-$4000 and my trade. Parker, by the way, had a nice price increase in its lines. There's a
used 2003 boat just like mine in the area for sale for $63,500. I love
it. I've had virtually no depreciation. There are similar boats "on the
market" and on the web for the high 50's, but around here, Parker and
Grady rule, and they are easy resales for damned good prices if they
have been maintained properly. |
Harry
May 22
|
| This is definitely *not* the place to get a 'good deal' on a used Parker or
Grady!
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 22
|
| PS. Knowing how much you like Goldfinches, I posted a picture of one for
you 'over there'.
--
'Til next time, John H ***** Have a Spectacular Day! *****
|
JohnH
May 22
|
| You could have had a hot price. |
Harry
May 22
|
| considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: >But that same day, the owner of the dealership called to pitch me on
>four-strokes. I'm with Harry on this. If you go to 4-stroke.... go for MAXIMUM
horsepower and prop accordingly to hold the RPMs in the lower
acceptable max band.
|
Gene
May 22
|
| Max. hp on the 2001 Marlin is 500hp. Yamaha has a performance bulletin on those engines with 15 1/4x19 props. It
runs 47.5 mph at 6000 RPM. |
NOYB
May 23
|
| Be sure to let us know what GPH that speed translates into...it should
be...astronomical! I'm not too unhappy burning 10-11 gph at a nice
cruise speed in Yo Ho. Faster than that, and I have to wield a scimitar. |
Harry
May 22
|
|
According to Grady-White and Yamaha... 42.6 gph at 47.5mph. http://www.gradywhite.com/popup/specs.php?boat=300&file=F250T But I should be burning 4-5 gph less with these engines at 30 mph than with
the old two-strokes. |
NOYB
May 23
|
| Not E-Tec's? ;) |
-rick-
May 22
|
| NOYB,
Did you consider a E-Tec instead of the 4 stroke, and what was your
reasoning behind buying the simpler, less complex, but HEAVIER 4
stroke, vs. the realitively new high tech, complex but much LIGHTER
E-Tec? NOYB wrote: |
Reginald
May 23
|
| Harry,
Since your current engine does the job without any problems, and your
current usage would never justify the expense of the new engine, why
would you consider buying a new engine ? |
Reginald
May 23
|
| For a 4000-rpm, 30-mph cruise with a half load of fuel, and three or
four adults aboard. To get that 30 mph now, I have to run a little
higher than 4000 rpm. On calm days, I like to run at 30. |
Harry
May 23
|
| >Did you consider a E-Tec instead of the 4 stroke, and what was your
>reasoning behind buying the simpler, less complex, but HEAVIER 4
>stroke, vs. the realitively new high tech, complex but much LIGHTER
>E-Tec? You aren't going to get anything BUT Yamahas at a Grady dealer. |
Gene
May 23
|
| I dunno about that. My Grady dealer sells Hondas, too. But I don't
believe the Gradys come rigged with Hondas. |
Harry
May 23
|
| I'm tired of buying oil. |
NOYB
May 23
|
| Two reasons: I'm sick of buying oil. The last thing I need is to have to buy $40/gallon
oil. Grady's come with Yamaha's, so it will have better resale down the road with
Yamaha's. |
NOYB
May 23
|
| The repower is being done at a dealer that sells Gen-Mar products. The
Grady dealer told me they couldn't get me in for service for 5 weeks. Their
loss. |
NOYB
May 23
|
