Carb cleaner fuel additive that works?
Can anyone recommend a good carb cleaner fuel additive that works? I try to
run out all my fuel after use (with stabil in it) but I would like to know
if there is an additive that can remove the gum from the idle circuit and
float needle that eventually builds up. I have a 1972 50hp Johnson and I
have rebuilt the 2 carbs but it is starting to get a little gunked up again.
It's been 4 years since the rebuild. It is a freshwater Northern boat that
sits for the winter. One of the 2 float needles seems to stick and free up
now and then. Unfortunately it only gets used about 25 hours per year.Thanks in advance, Steve |
Roadrunner
Aug 11
2006
|
| >gas from evaporating. Maybe it hangs around with the gunk and makes it
>easier for the new gas to disolve it? My understanding, perhaps incorrect, is that the varnish formation is
a chemical reaction which Stabil somehow defers. More than
evaporation is involved with fuel deterioration although that is a
convenient way to accelerate and demonstrate gunk formation. |
Wayne.B
Aug 13
|
| My lawnmower repair service says otherwise, and I can almost believe them. You
should add fresh Stabil every so often, more frequent than every 12 months.
It's
cheap insurance when you consider the cost of a carb repair. Sherwin D. Eisboch wrote: > "sherwindu" <sherwindu@comcast.net> wrote in message |
sherwindu
Aug 14
|
| Better have some good filters inline to catch all the junk that breaks off. The
carb
jets on a 4-stroke outboard are quite fine and it doesn't take much to block
them up. Sherwin D. Jack/Cast-Aways wrote: |
sherwindu
Aug 14
|
| I'm not sure that Stabil will do anything in regards to evaporation,
and what's left over from that evaporation. I do know that it does work
in keeping gas that's left in a tank getting "stale" as it is generally
called. |
basskisser
Aug 12
|
| I'd bet it's true. Walnut shells are a great cleaning medium and are
used a lot. |
basskisser
Aug 12
|
| Stabil treatment will not last forever. Certainly it will lose potency over a
winter
layup. Getting out all the gas is good insurance. I have more confidence in
products
like Mercury Quick Silver Cleaner, than I do in Stabil, although I still use
Stabil in my
lawnmower gas. Maybe using both will be helpful. Sherwin D. Roadrunner Newsgroup wrote: |
sherwindu
Aug 13
|
| A couple of claims from the Sta-bil website: "STA-BIL stops the formation of varnish and prevents corrosion." "One ounce of STA-BIL Fuel Stabilizer will keep 2-1/2 gallons of fuel fresh
for 12 months. Using twice the recommended dosage will keep fuel fresh for
up to 24 months."
Eisboch |
Eisboch
Aug 13
|
| Go to your local NAPA store and pick up a can of Sea Foam and dump the whole
can in the tank. It might take a couple of tanks to clean out the really
dirty systems. It'll keep your fuel system happy, and once you've cleaned
the system out, a few ounces every other tank will keep it clean. "Roadrunner Newsgroup" <RRNG@highlandcraft.com> wrote in message |
Jack/Cast-Aways
Aug 13
|
| Again, there's been many many documented tests where they've used
various products much like, if not Seafoam, to clean carbon deposits.
Now I'm not saying that if the top of a piston has very minor carbon,
that seafoam won't make it look clean, but if you've got carbon enough
so that your compression has gone up, and results in pinging without
higher octane fuel, then it ain't going to do much for you. |
basskisser
Aug 11
|
| Check with the Vulcan riders at vroc.org. The Vulcan 800 is known to build up
carbon from using high octane fuel or from lugging it too much. Seafoam does the
trick on the 800, it sure worked on mine. I don't think the carbon problem is
causing any boost in compression, I think the "spark knock" that some have cured
with Seafoam was caused by carbon making hot spots that caused pre-ignition.
Some bike got so bad that the engine actually had a knock in the engine that
sounded like piston slap or bad bearings, turned out to be real bad carbon build
up that actually hit the pistons. Those bikes had to have their engines torn
down. This could have been avoided if they used Seafoam, but not cured once it
went that far. |
Jeff
Aug 11
|
| I have pulled my carbs and cleaned the jets with fine wire, and that seems |
sherwindu
Aug 12
|
| I don't know if a complete rebuild is necessary. Just take a fine enough wire
and
carefully run it through the jets. It works for me. Sherwin D. basskisser wrote: > jamesgangnc wrote: |
sherwindu
Aug 12
|
| Sea Foam is similar to Stabil, but has the added ability to clean the carbs. I
have had some success with Sea Foam, but better luck with a product like Mercury's Quick Silver fuel additive. Some of these products will actually break off dirt
inside
your gas tank and fuel line contributing to the problem. A rusted or dirty tank
should
be cleaned or replaced. An extra inline filter from the gas tank is a good idea. Sherwin D. tschnautz@gmail.com wrote: |
sherwindu
Aug 12
|
| Seems like I recall old shade tree mechanics using a device that hooked up
to a garden hose and created a very fine water mist at the carb inlet on
cars that had carbon buildup on the tops of the pistons. The very small
amount of water that mixed with the air/fuel mixture was supposed to burn
off the accumulated carbon. I don't think I'd try this on a modern, fuel injected, $14.000.00 engine
however. Eisboch |
Eisboch
Aug 12
|
| I've seen people, back in the old days, pour a half pound of rice down
their carbs while the engine was going about 3500 rpm. A *lot* of black
stuff came out the exhaust! I don't know if it was carbon or just burnt
rice. Again, I wouldn't try this at home.
|
JohnH
Aug 12
|
| Thanks for the replies, I will try the Merc or Evinrude fuel additive. I
have also heard that SeaFoam works for some folks. I have always used stabil
in the gas. A Harley friend of mine suggested using a Briggs & Stratton gas
preservitive instead of stabil. It has a mix of 2 components and has 2 mix
levels, 1 for storage, i.e. over winter and one for limited operation, i.e.
summer. A lot of Harley guys in Wisconsin use the Briggs fuel preservative
and report improved results over stabil. BTW we have 10% Alchohol gas
here )Wisconsin) near the urban areas too which sux, but I travel for the
100% gas for my boat motor. Aslo, I have tried Regular, Mid, & Premium with
no noticable difference in performance. The manual (1972) says to use
regular or premium?? Regular is cheaper so that's easy, but any thoughts
from others? I can't detect any pinging with regular, but?? Thanks again for the replies, Steve - 72 Johnson 50, 50th Anniversary dual carb. |
Roadrunner
Aug 12
|
| When they built the new gas turbine power plant down in Killingly, I
wondered what the bright green smoke was coming out of one of the
stacks one day. I knew one of the engineers there, so one time I
asked him what the green smoke was. Get this - finely crushed walnut shells. I guess they chuck them into
the turbines at low rpm to clean the burner cans from time-to-time.
The green is a chemical that does the cleaning and the fine crushed
walnut shells are the transport medium. Don't; know if that's true or not, but that's what he said. |
Shortwave
Aug 12
|
| When I worked on turbines we used walnut shell for decarbing the engines.
Not so finely crushed, either. No chemicals were required with the walnut
shells but we also water washed the engines for minor cleaning. We used no
chemicals in the water because the high heat would have just caused anything
to plate on the high temp parts of the engines. While operating a gas turbine plant in Latin America (GE LM1500s) using
diesel fuel supplied from Venezuela we had a severe vanadium plating problem
which just about halved the useful life of high temp items. That cheap
Venezuelan oil was pretty expensive. |
Butch
Aug 12
|
| Probably true. I've heard walnut shells are also used similarly on
airplane turbines. They are also used for "selective" coating removals on
submarines. http://www.compomat.com/walnut.shtml |
thunder
Aug 12
|
| Again, many many studies have shown otherwise. |
basskisser
Aug 12
|
| I do run the engine dry of fuel with stabil mixed but don't drain the bowls.
I will check to see if there are accessible screws at the bottom of the
bowls. I had thought that the stabil would keep the fuel in the bowls
"stabil" as per the stabil 800 line, but I would rather remove as much fuel
as possible. Steve |
Roadrunner
Aug 12
|
| Mercury Quick Clean works for me. Sherwin D. Roadrunner Newsgroup wrote: |
sherwindu
Aug 11
|
| To prevent this buildup during winter storage use Evinrude Johnson 2+4
instead of stabil. "Roadrunner Newsgroup" <RRNG@highlandcraft.com> wrote in message |
Ron
Aug 11
|
| 2+4 is the exact same composition as Stabil. Other than specifically cleaning the lines, Stabil should be
sufficient. |
Shortwave
Aug 11
|
| Also store the motor trimmed fully down and keep the bowls full... pump the
ball once every 2 weeks. Try to start it on the muffs more often. -W |
Clams
Aug 11
|
| If they are gunked up, I'd rebuild them again, then use preventative
measures to keep them that way, using Stabil and starting once in
awhile as Clams has said. |
basskisser
Aug 11
|
| This is an interesting topic. I've always thought the add to the gas
cleaners were sort of snake oil. After all gas it's self is a pretty
good dissolver, what could be in these cleaners that would do it better
but still not be so corrosive that it ate up all the gaskets. Anyone
really take a carb apart, look at, put it back together, run a can of
cleaner through, and then take it back apart and see what got cleaned?
That would really tell the tale. I've always been in a quandry about carbs with float bowls too. I add
stabilizer to my boat gas and fill the tank as winterizing but it
mostly evaporates from the float bowls over the winter anyway.
Merc/chevy small block with a holley on it. I figure the stabilizer is
good for the gas in the tank but the carb problems are typically
because the gas evaporates and leaves crud on the inside of the jets. On my generator, which we only use once in a rare while, I shut the
fuel valve at the tank and let the engine burn as much as it can from
the float bowl. I do periodically run the thing but I always shut it
down by turning off the fuel. I've thought about adding a valve to the boat gas line right at the
carb so I could do the same thing to it. |
jamesgangnc
Aug 11
|
| They are all about the same. Their cleaning power is limited because
anything that's stronger would damage rubber and some plastics. As long
as they work - fine.
When they stop working (too much stuff in the carbs), the carbs have to
be pulled off, washed and/or rebuilt. I used acetone, it's a very good
solvent for the job. All rubber and acetone-sensitive plastic parts, if
any, should be removed to avoid damage (better solvents do exist, but
they are not as easily available). In article <29qod291f2k5qbfev7h7cgusk60fhcg9cq@4ax.com>,
Shortwave Sportfishing <onetwothree@four.com> wrote: |
Huss
Aug 11
|
| Try this sometime. Put a small amount of gasoline purchased from your local
gas station in a glass or open mason (ball) jar. Put it in a safe but
protected space outside and let the gas evaporate. It will probably take a
couple of days for a quarter of a cup or so of gas. After it has evaporated and no liquid is left, observe the glass or jar
bottom and sides. That hardened goo is what screws up the carb if gas is
allowed to sit in it and evaporate. Stabil is claimed to prevent this. I
add Stabil to the gas tanks of my "classic" cars everytime I put gas in them
because they are not used or run often and the gas you get today goes stale
very quickly. Fuel injection does not suffer from this because the lines stay under
pressure and the gas does not evaporate. Eisboch |
Eisboch
Aug 11
|
| Could you try the same experiment with stabil in the gas?
I'd do it myself, but you know how busy I am.
Jim |
Jim
Aug 11
|
| Still raising baby pineapples, huh? Good idea though ... I'll try it sometime. Eisboch |
Eisboch
Aug 11
|
| Do you carbs have a drain on the bottom of the bowl? Some do, some
don't. As far as the snake oil, I think maybe in the proportions that
would make it economical, that they don't work that well. A outboard
carb rebuild is pretty simple, and the kit is cheap. On our annual
fishing trip, one of the regulars invited a new guy. He brought his
boat, which had sat for months, and put it in the water, only to find
out it would barely run. I take him up to the marina in my boat, and he
buys two cans of some Merc product that has a fitting to hook directly
to the carb. Well, while we are all sitting on the dock watching, he
puts a can of the tune up stuff on, and putts around the cove, smoking
and stinking, won't get above 1000 rpm or so. Second can, same thing. I
go down there, and I do hear a difference... Asks me to run him back to
the marina, gets two more cans. Now, I never, ever thought after two
cans that more would make a difference, but he plugs in the third can,
and after about using it up, the thing starts running better and
better, then takes off!!! So, it did work, but I'd just as soon rebuild
the carbs for about the same price, and take less time, and know that
they are right. I rebuild mine on my 135 Evinrude every couple of
years, but they are problematic with small openings to get clogged
anyway. |
basskisser
Aug 11
|
| Interesting test idea. I'm at a loss to see how stabil could keep the
gas from evaporating. Maybe it hangs around with the gunk and makes it
easier for the new gas to disolve it? |
jamesgangnc
Aug 11
|
| One of the main features of Stabil is that it prevents formation of
sludge and varnish. If used consistently, there is seldom need to do
any further cleaning work. It's also a pretty good idea to get one of
those funnels with the fine screen in it to make sure you don't put
any particulates into your gas tank. Like the Sta-bil, you have to use
it EVERY TIME. Gas from any source can be contaminated with rust and
other particles that no treatment will overcome. CWM |
Charlie
Aug 11
|
| Same with the gas for my lawn tractor, weed eater, blower, etc. I
always put stabil in them. Friend had a pressure washer with a Honda
motor on it, 6hp. He'd take it to the shop every few months because,
according to him, he'd get it back, it'd run great, then slowly get so
it wouldn't start at all. I took it, cleaned the carb, told him to use
stabil every time he bought gas in his can, and it hasn't happened
since. |
basskisser
Aug 11
|
| I know several mechanics, that swear by "Sea Foam" . Some say it's the
best they've ever used.
YMMV http://www.seafoamsales.com/motorTuneUpTechGas.htm
Roadrunner Newsgroup wrote: |
tschnautz
Aug 11
|
| It may be good for carbs, but their website sure makes a lot of claims,
one being that it'll clean carbon deposits. There has been alot of
tests done on care engines with stuff claiming to clean carbon from
tops of pistons, only to find that the only true way to do so is
manually. |
basskisser
Aug 11
|
| An engineer in a motorcycle group did a test, scoped his motor with a fiber
optics scope thru the spark plug hole. Ran Seafoam for the next 3 tank fulls
and scoped it again. He had a bad carbon problem in the first look and it was
all but gone in the second, with no other changes. He was a skeptic at the
beginning and did the visual check to prove the others in the group that their
claims were BS, he admitted that Seafoam did exactly as it claimed. |
Jeff
Aug 11
|
