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Happy Cristobol Colon Day

Poor Columbus.

Almost none of what we learned about Columbus back when kids in grade school turns out to be true.

Back in the 50's and 60's, they used to teach us that Columbus dispelled the popular notion that the world was flat. Wrong, of course. Since the days of Aristotle nearly all educated people knew the world was basically a sphere.

Then they taught us that Columbus "discovered America". Not true of course, as the millions of people already living here must have somehow "discovered" it many many thousands of years previously. To correct this obvious error, revisionists were quick to point out that the Vikings had discovered American hundreds of years before Columbus, but figured that nothing of any consequnce could ever be developed there and eventually abandoned their colonies.

They taught us that Columbus assumed he had landed in India. Nonsense again. Northern European markets were awash in salted cod from the banks in the western Atlantic long before Columbus sailed the ocean blue. Seamen knew what was out there, what direction to sail to get there, and about how far away it was.

One of the great controversies in the time of Columbus was the biblical challenge associated with western hemisphere. The Bible mentioned Africa and Asia, so the Church had no problem acknowledging that those regions existed. Since the Bible did not mention the western continent, the Church feared that a broad awareness of the western lands might undermine the concept of Biblical infallibility (and therefore Church authority). In a time when the Inquisition was burning, crucifying, branding, and banishing "heretics", the Spanish monarchs and Columbus had little choice except to disguise their voyage to the western continent as a passage to "India."

But hats off to Columbus. He made a relatively hazardous voyage, laid the foundation for the vast wealth of the fledgling Spanish Empire, and was one of the better spin meisters of his day. :-)

Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Chuck
Oct 12
2006
Thought you would like that one. Calif
Oct 14
I always admired Evangelista Torricelli , myself.

Eisboch

Eisboch
Oct 13
How about Henry Hudson? :>)

WHEN THE HELL IS HENRY HUDSON DAY?!?!?!?!?

Hmmmmm?

Or for that matter, Canada should have a Sir Humphrey Gilbert Day.

Or Jaques Cartier Day.

Man, I'm telling you Chuck, you are on to something here.

Tom
Oct 13
Jacques Cartier Day? Really? What happened, on his watch?

(Running and ducking through a chorus of boos and a salvo of half eaten stadium food, the unfortunate comedian made a hasty exit to pursue his day job.....)

Chuck
Oct 13
My entire working career, we heard that we should have another stat holiday in February. I'm retired now and still waiting. Business up here complain how much that would cost them. In this area we have New Years, Good Friday & Easter Sunday, Victoria Day, Natal Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, Rememberance Day and finally Christmas. Don
Oct 13
Piffle. He was a mere candle to the bright flame of brilliance that was Tycho Brahe. Tom
Oct 13
D'oh! I forgot Canada Day on July 01. Don
Oct 13
Claudius Ptolemy taught him everything he knew.

Eisboch

Eisboch
Oct 13
Um....Brahe proved that the Ptolemaic was garbage.

Ptolemy was a dumbass. :>)

Tom
Oct 13
How about a Pourbaix day. And we could all go to Subway. Calif
Oct 13
Talk about a brilliant guy... Tom
Oct 13
Henry was trying to find the Northwest Passage, and failed.

Columbus thought he succeeded. :-)

Wayne.B
Oct 13
Details, details... Tom
Oct 13
Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a relevant topic in a boating NG. Chuck
Oct 13
How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci? Tom
Oct 13
I've never studied up much on him, but I know he was one of the earliest Portuguese explorers to actual find the mainlands on North and South America.

When is Amerigo Vespucci day? When his holiday comes around it might be useful to post a few lines about this important historic navigator as well.

Chuck
Oct 13
Slaves were commonly held by the wealthiest First Nations families here on the NW Coast. Much like people enslaved by folks of European ancestry, the slaves were assigned the most difficult or menial tasks while the slave owners lived relatively luxurious lifestyles.

Here's a link to a synopsis of well known a tale describing the enslavement of an Englishman by a native chief in British Columbia:

http://www.abcbookworld.com/?state=view_author&author_id=3954

Chuck
Oct 12
Welcome to the dark side Chuck as it seems that your posts now include OT posts your previously sheriffed against. ;-)
Oct 12
It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not here to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that the forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum; would you now agree with that statement? John
Oct 12
I dunno, if memory serves, the one thing Columbus was famous for was a boat ride across the pond. Doesn't seem all that off topic to me. RG
Oct 13
Not at all, JimH.

Columbus was one hell of a maritime explorer, was he not? How is a famous mariner off topic for a boating newsgroup?

Chuck
Oct 12
Actually was a great read at the link. Included boats, and massacres, guns, and knifes. Calif
Oct 13
>name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon.

Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a slaver, native abuser and a rapist.

~~ sigh ~~

Tom
Oct 12
I take it that you disagree with this? basskisser
Oct 12
Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that. Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one. Whether the native women had to be forced or whether they were generally available on a "welcome to our village, here's a gift to demonstrate how happy we are to see you" basis might to tough to establish, especially since most of the first contact cultures were wiped out by disease.

Among the more profound events that occured during the four voyages of Cristobol Colon to the New World had to be the exchange of microbes. Entire islands were depopulated as the natives fell victim to mumps, measles, and other diseases that often were normally considered survivable in Europe. Not to be outdone, however, the natives sent Columbus' crews home with a bit of a departure present. Syphillis was unkown in Europe until 1493. Apparently the natives had developed an immunity to syphllis, but virtually everybody was a "carrier".

So if the New American Indian Movement wants to be anti-Columbus, the least they can do would be to "clap" politely in his honor. :-)

Chuck
Oct 12
>Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.

This is one article I found - I'm still looking for the one with the rapist thing.

http://tinyurl.com/y7ba8r

The rational is truly amazing.

Tom
Oct 12
We're talking about Colon, not Clinton. Alotta
Oct 12
Yeah, I don't know who those Native Americans think they are. Acting like the own the place. Don't they know that the United States is the Anglo's? Why do they think we went to all of the trouble to send them on a scenic journey called the Trail of Tears? And after we rounded them all up like cattle, we gave them nice pieces of land to develop and use as their own. It's not OUR fault that most of the land we gave them is arid, untillable, and won't sustain life. basskisser
Oct 12
Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid? basskisser
Oct 12
Do you have a macro set to post that response?

http://tinyurl.com/uwtar

Dan
Oct 12
No, he just has a vocabulary of 8 words. Alotta
Oct 12
LOL! I wonder.....did *he* call anyone names today?
Oct 12
But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also. Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well. Calif
Oct 12
They made the slave work at their casino's and cigarette stores. ;-)
Oct 12
Grows casinos very well. And the Native Americans, sent their brothers on trails of tears also. the Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes. The Anastasias were sent on their way by the Apaches as they came Southwest. So, give your property to the local Indians and move back to Europe. And the Native Americans, were originally Mongols and other Asian tribes. Were they being run off their lands by local despots? And Nova Scotia was originally Viking land. Conflict has been man's way since the birth of mankind. Calif
Oct 12
Why, where have I ever posted that particular response before? Do tell..... basskisser
Oct 12
Typical of the JimH cowardice. Because he's not man enough to face anyone he's said nasty and shitty things about, he claims to killfile them, then continue his childish bullshit insults. Coward. basskisser
Oct 12
So, because of your above diatribe, you think we've done good by the native americans???? Really?? You do realize that, even as casinos rise, there is pure hell on the reservations? Poverty, alcoholism, etc., right? Also, you are dead wrong about the Trail of Tears. A few Cherokee leaders were promised great things by, you guessed it, the white man, in turn for signing the Treaty of New Echota, while most cherokee were against it:

"In 1835 some leaders of the Cherokee tribe signed the Treaty of New Echota. This agreement ceded all rights to their traditional lands to the United States. In return the tribe was granted land in the Indian Territory. Although the majority of the Cherokees opposed this agreement they were forced to make the journey by General Winfield Scott and his soldiers. In October 1838 about 15,000 Cherokees began what was later to be known as the Trail of Tears. Most of the Cherokees travelled the 800 mile journey on foot. As a result of serious mistakes made by the Federal agents who guided them to their new land, they suffered from hunger and the cold weather and an estimated 4,000 people died on the journey"

"Overall it is believed that about 70,000 Native Americans were forced to migrate from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, Tennessee and Florida to Oklahoma. During the journey many died as a result of famine and disease."

Boy, we sure did good by them, huh?

As far as the Nez Perce:

n 1877 General Otis Howard instructed Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce tribe to move from their tribal lands in Oregon. Joseph eventually agreed to leave the Wallowa Valley and along with 350 followers settled in Whitebird Creek in Idaho. Around 190 young men rebelled against this decision and attacked white settlers in what became known as the Nez Perce War. Joseph's brother, Sousouquee, was killed during this fighting. Although he had no experience as a warrior, Joseph took part in the battles at White Bird Canyon (17th June), Clearwater (11th July) and at Bear Paw Mountain (30th September).

"Chief Joseph and his men began a 1,300 mile march to Canada. However, on 5th October, 1877, the Nez Perce were surrounded by troops only 30 miles from the Canadian border. Joseph now agreed to take part in negotiations with General Nelson Miles. During the meeting Joseph was seized and beaten-up. Nez Perce warriors retaliated by capturing Lieutenant Lovell Jerome. A few weeks later Joseph was released in exchange for Lieutenant Jerome.

Chief Joseph continued to negotiate with General Miles. He also visited Washington where he met President William McKinley and President Theodore Roosevelt . Eventually some members of the Nez Perce tribe were allowed to return home but others were forced to live on the Colville Reservation. Joseph remained with them and did what he could to encourage his people to go to school and to discourage gambling and drunkenness."

basskisser
Oct 12
> The Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes. And the Sioux were chased out of Wisconsin and Minnesota by the Chippewa. Being that the horse came over with Columbus, ever wonder about the great horse culture before the white man? thunder
Oct 12
so maybe the Indians, should asimilate and not live on the reservations. Calif
Oct 12
   

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