Happy Cristobol Colon Day
Poor Columbus.Almost none of what we learned about Columbus back when kids in grade
school turns out to be true. Back in the 50's and 60's, they used to teach us that Columbus
dispelled the popular notion that the world was flat. Wrong, of course.
Since the days of Aristotle nearly all educated people knew the world
was basically a sphere. Then they taught us that Columbus "discovered America". Not true of
course, as the millions of people already living here must have somehow
"discovered" it many many thousands of years previously. To correct
this obvious error, revisionists were quick to point out that the
Vikings had discovered American hundreds of years before Columbus, but
figured that nothing of any consequnce could ever be developed there
and eventually abandoned their colonies. They taught us that Columbus assumed he had landed in India. Nonsense
again. Northern European markets were awash in salted cod from the
banks in the western Atlantic long before Columbus sailed the ocean
blue. Seamen knew what was out there, what direction to sail to get
there, and about how far away it was. One of the great controversies in the time of Columbus was the biblical
challenge associated with western hemisphere. The Bible mentioned
Africa and Asia, so the Church had no problem acknowledging that those
regions existed. Since the Bible did not mention the western continent,
the Church feared that a broad awareness of the western lands might
undermine the concept of Biblical infallibility (and therefore Church
authority). In a time when the Inquisition was burning, crucifying,
branding, and banishing "heretics", the Spanish monarchs and Columbus
had little choice except to disguise their voyage to the western
continent as a passage to "India." But hats off to Columbus. He made a relatively hazardous voyage, laid
the foundation for the vast wealth of the fledgling Spanish Empire, and
was one of the better spin meisters of his day. :-) Oh, and one final thing they got wrong about Columbus. His name. His
name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon. |
Chuck
Oct 12 2006
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| Thought you would like that one. |
Calif
Oct 14
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| I always admired Evangelista Torricelli , myself. Eisboch |
Eisboch
Oct 13
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| How about Henry Hudson? :>) WHEN THE HELL IS HENRY HUDSON DAY?!?!?!?!? Hmmmmm? Or for that matter, Canada should have a Sir Humphrey
Gilbert Day. Or Jaques Cartier Day. Man, I'm telling you Chuck, you are on to something here. |
Tom
Oct 13
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| Jacques Cartier Day?
Really?
What happened, on his watch? (Running and ducking through a chorus of boos and a salvo of half eaten
stadium food, the unfortunate comedian made a hasty exit to pursue his
day job.....) |
Chuck
Oct 13
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| My entire working career, we heard that we should have another stat
holiday in February. I'm retired now and still waiting.
Business up here complain how much that would cost them.
In this area we have New Years, Good Friday & Easter Sunday, Victoria
Day, Natal Day, Labour Day, Thanksgiving, Rememberance Day and finally
Christmas. |
Don
Oct 13
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| Piffle. He was a mere candle to the bright flame of brilliance that
was Tycho Brahe. |
Tom
Oct 13
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| D'oh! I forgot Canada Day on July 01. |
Don
Oct 13
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| Claudius Ptolemy taught him everything he knew. Eisboch |
Eisboch
Oct 13
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| Um....Brahe proved that the Ptolemaic was garbage. Ptolemy was a dumbass. :>) |
Tom
Oct 13
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| How about a Pourbaix day. And we could all go to Subway. |
Calif
Oct 13
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| Talk about a brilliant guy... |
Tom
Oct 13
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| Henry was trying to find the Northwest Passage, and failed. Columbus thought he succeeded. :-) |
Wayne.B
Oct 13
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| Details, details... |
Tom
Oct 13
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| Maybe my standards are more lax than yours, but I consider a thread
about Columbus or any other mariner of historic importance to be a
relevant topic in a boating NG. |
Chuck
Oct 13
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| How do you feel about Amerigo Vespucci? |
Tom
Oct 13
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| I've never studied up much on him, but I know he was one of the
earliest Portuguese explorers to actual find the mainlands on North and
South America. When is Amerigo Vespucci day? When his holiday comes around it might be
useful to post a few lines about this important historic navigator as
well. |
Chuck
Oct 13
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| Slaves were commonly held by the wealthiest First Nations families here
on the NW Coast.
Much like people enslaved by folks of European ancestry, the slaves
were assigned the most difficult or menial tasks while the slave owners
lived relatively luxurious lifestyles. Here's a link to a synopsis of well known a tale describing the
enslavement of an Englishman by a native chief in British Columbia: http://www.abcbookworld.com/?state=view_author&author_id=3954 |
Chuck
Oct 12
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| Welcome to the dark side Chuck as it seems that your posts now include OT
posts your previously sheriffed against. ;-) |
Oct 12
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| It's good to see you have acquiesced to the culture here; you championed a
strict on-topic rule, but now you understand that most posters are not here
to discuss boating. It seems only a short time ago I was reading that the
forum was greatly improved, and that OT topics were now at a minimum; would
you now agree with that statement? |
John
Oct 12
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| I dunno, if memory serves, the one thing Columbus was famous for was a boat
ride across the pond. Doesn't seem all that off topic to me. |
RG
Oct 13
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| Not at all, JimH. Columbus was one hell of a maritime explorer, was he not? How is a
famous mariner off topic for a boating newsgroup? |
Chuck
Oct 12
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| Actually was a great read at the link. Included boats, and massacres, guns,
and knifes. |
Calif
Oct 13
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| >name wasn't really Christopher Columbus, but rather Cristobal Colon. Now, thanks apparently to the New American Indian Movement, he was a
slaver, native abuser and a rapist. ~~ sigh ~~ |
Tom
Oct 12
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| I take it that you disagree with this? |
basskisser
Oct 12
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| Slaver? Yes, there is some evidence for that.
Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one.
Whether the native women had to be forced or whether they were
generally available on a "welcome to our village, here's a gift to
demonstrate how happy we are to see you" basis might to tough to
establish, especially since most of the first contact cultures were
wiped out by disease. Among the more profound events that occured during the four voyages of
Cristobol Colon to the New World had to be the exchange of microbes.
Entire islands were depopulated as the natives fell victim to mumps,
measles, and other diseases that often were normally considered
survivable in Europe. Not to be outdone, however, the natives sent
Columbus' crews home with a bit of a departure present. Syphillis was
unkown in Europe until 1493.
Apparently the natives had developed an immunity to syphllis, but
virtually everybody was a "carrier". So if the New American Indian Movement wants to be anti-Columbus, the
least they can do would be to "clap" politely in his honor. :-) |
Chuck
Oct 12
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| >Native abuser and rapist? I think the jury is still out on that one. This is one article I found - I'm still looking for the one with the
rapist thing. http://tinyurl.com/y7ba8r The rational is truly amazing. |
Tom
Oct 12
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| We're talking about Colon, not Clinton. |
Alotta
Oct 12
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| Yeah, I don't know who those Native Americans think they are. Acting
like the own the place. Don't they know that the United States is the
Anglo's? Why do they think we went to all of the trouble to send them
on a scenic journey called the Trail of Tears? And after we rounded
them all up like cattle, we gave them nice pieces of land to develop
and use as their own. It's not OUR fault that most of the land we gave
them is arid, untillable, and won't sustain life. |
basskisser
Oct 12
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| Are you capable of making ANY type of remark that isn't either childish
and petty name calling, or worse, completely and utterly stupid? |
basskisser
Oct 12
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| Do you have a macro set to post that response? http://tinyurl.com/uwtar |
Dan
Oct 12
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| No, he just has a vocabulary of 8 words. |
Alotta
Oct 12
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| LOL! I wonder.....did *he* call anyone names today? |
Oct 12
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| But the First Nation people / Native American's were slave holders also.
Abused other natives, and probably a few rapist among them. Oh Well. |
Calif
Oct 12
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| They made the slave work at their casino's and cigarette stores. ;-) |
Oct 12
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| Grows casinos very well. And the Native Americans, sent their brothers on
trails of tears also. the Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes.
The Anastasias were sent on their way by the Apaches as they came Southwest.
So, give your property to the local Indians and move back to Europe. And
the Native Americans, were originally Mongols and other Asian tribes. Were
they being run off their lands by local despots? And Nova Scotia was
originally Viking land. Conflict has been man's way since the birth of
mankind. |
Calif
Oct 12
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| Why, where have I ever posted that particular response before? Do
tell..... |
basskisser
Oct 12
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| Typical of the JimH cowardice. Because he's not man enough to face
anyone he's said nasty and shitty things about, he claims to killfile
them, then continue his childish bullshit insults. Coward. |
basskisser
Oct 12
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| So, because of your above diatribe, you think we've done good by the
native americans???? Really??
You do realize that, even as casinos rise, there is pure hell on the
reservations? Poverty, alcoholism, etc., right?
Also, you are dead wrong about the Trail of Tears. A few Cherokee
leaders were promised great things by, you guessed it, the white man,
in turn for signing the Treaty of New Echota, while most cherokee were
against it: "In 1835 some leaders of the Cherokee tribe signed the Treaty of New
Echota. This agreement ceded all rights to their traditional lands to
the United States. In return the tribe was granted land in the Indian
Territory. Although the majority of the Cherokees opposed this
agreement they were forced to make the journey by General Winfield
Scott and his soldiers. In October 1838 about 15,000 Cherokees began
what was later to be known as the Trail of Tears. Most of the Cherokees
travelled the 800 mile journey on foot. As a result of serious mistakes
made by the Federal agents who guided them to their new land, they
suffered from hunger and the cold weather and an estimated 4,000 people
died on the journey" "Overall it is believed that about 70,000 Native Americans were forced
to migrate from Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Virginia, Tennessee and
Florida to Oklahoma. During the journey many died as a result of famine
and disease." Boy, we sure did good by them, huh? As far as the Nez Perce: n 1877 General Otis Howard instructed Chief Joseph and the Nez Perce
tribe to move from their tribal lands in Oregon. Joseph eventually
agreed to leave the Wallowa Valley and along with 350 followers settled
in Whitebird Creek in Idaho. Around 190 young men rebelled against this
decision and attacked white settlers in what became known as the Nez
Perce War. Joseph's brother, Sousouquee, was killed during this
fighting. Although he had no experience as a warrior, Joseph took part
in the battles at White Bird Canyon (17th June), Clearwater (11th July)
and at Bear Paw Mountain (30th September). "Chief Joseph and his men began a 1,300 mile march to Canada. However,
on 5th October, 1877, the Nez Perce were surrounded by troops only 30
miles from the Canadian border. Joseph now agreed to take part in
negotiations with General Nelson Miles. During the meeting Joseph was
seized and beaten-up. Nez Perce warriors retaliated by capturing
Lieutenant Lovell Jerome. A few weeks later Joseph was released in
exchange for Lieutenant Jerome. Chief Joseph continued to negotiate with General Miles. He also visited
Washington where he met President William McKinley and President
Theodore Roosevelt . Eventually some members of the Nez Perce tribe
were allowed to return home but others were forced to live on the
Colville Reservation. Joseph remained with them and did what he could
to encourage his people to go to school and to discourage gambling and
drunkenness." |
basskisser
Oct 12
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| > The Sioux sent the Apaches off the fertile planes. And the Sioux were chased out of Wisconsin and Minnesota by the Chippewa.
Being that the horse came over with Columbus, ever wonder about the great
horse culture before the white man? |
thunder
Oct 12
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| so maybe the Indians, should asimilate and not live on the reservations. |
Calif
Oct 12
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