Good marine binoculars good enough?
I need binoculars for my little boat. I have been told the Steiner
Commander V model is excellent, and it costs about 700 eurobucks. For
example it would have these features:-outstanding brightness for twilight use
-rangefinder reticle
-autofocus
-nitrogen filled, the nitrogen won't leak out and there is a guarantee
for 10 years they will not get fogged in any conditions
-shockproof - drop them and the prisms still won't move
-really waterproof http://www.steiner-binoculars.com/binoculars/marine/392.html The high price however makes me doubt whether this is a good investment
at this point. There are some very good marine binoculars for around
200 bucks with similar specs (nitrogen filled etc). The Fujinon models
have been praised: http://fujinon.binoculars.com/series/fujinon-mariner-xl-series-binoculars-2501.html The question is which of these would be worthwhile - Fujinon, maybe the
cheaper Steiners (eg. Observer), others? How much of the above features
would I give up by not going for the Commanders right away? Would I get
around with the cheaper ones for the few first years, and should they
last for years to come after that? I would prefer a model with an
integrated compass. Or alternatively I could go for compact generic travel binoculars at
first (7x25 or 8x20 or something like that for maybe just 100 bucks),
then upgrade in 1-3 years to a real binocular, and use these as the 2nd
boat binoculars and just generic binoculars everywhere. Would this be a
bad idea - ie. are these kinds of binoculars of any use while boating -
for now I'd stick mostly to daylight conditions with fair visibility
anyway? Risto |
Varis
Jan 5
2006
|
| Ironically enough some people make money by investing in boats.
Professionals who buy low, fix up and sell high are one thing. But
around here boat prices have been on the rise so much that a few people
get more from their old boat than they paid! Risto
Helsinki, Finland |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| It's your semi-socialist economy. You have a growing middle class. We
have a shrinking one. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| Could be, but I don't have enough expertise to really answer that. :-)
In the last decade or so, it seems we've been experiencing some new
stratification in the middle class too, some people can buy company
shares while others are happy if their boss extends their contract by
another month... Risto |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| It's a bit weird - maybe the Navigators are lighter and better balanced
than the Fujis or something? Risto |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| They're selling a set of Fujis for 56 eurobucks on ebay :-) I wonder if
all the Fujinon Techno-Stabi TS 1440 are built with the gyros or was
there multiple generations of the model? Risto |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| The Steiners are lighter and smaller, and much easier to use than the
Fujis, and the motion of the boat seemingly has less impact. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| I can not figure out why your lack of expertise or knowledge on a
subject should stop your from taking a firm stand on an issue. Some of
our most prolific regulars have no idea what they are talking about and
it doesn't stop them from responding to each and every topic. |
Reginald
Jan 7
|
| Definitely! Everybody knows the length of the average boat is 5 feet
too little, and my boat is smaller than the average ;) The point is, binoculars are cheaper than the boat! But, eventually,
maybe I'll upgrade to a 30 feet plus sailing yacht or something... Risto |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| My recommendation: try both binoculars, at best at twilight. It is not
only a question of facts, but also of the subjective preference.
I decided to buy a Commander III a couple of years ago, but I also
thought about buying a Fujinon. After testing both, I decided to take
the Steiner (which was much more expensive). However, it is a lifetime
investment. The quality of Steiner is excellent. But I also know people who are
very happy with the quality of Fujinon and made very good experiences
with them. Peter
--
http://www.skipperguide.com |
Peter
Jan 7
|
| I was just making light of the way your opening statement was phrased, not
knocking little boats. My personal theory on recreational boating is
E/F=1/LOA. (The amount of enjoyment versus frustration you get out of a boat
is inversely proportional to its size.) |
Ernest
Jan 7
|
| Ease up John. It's Sunday after all. Maybe JimH was just joking with NOYB. |
Don
Jan 7
|
| Binoculars are mostly needed in bad visibility conditions - in moist |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| Everyone but John knows I was kidding with NOYB. It is strange that I have been the subject to all of Herrings posts
today. Maybe John will find peace within himself sometime in 2007. I
will keep him in my prayers in hopes that happens. |
JimH
Jan 7
|
| Naw. I'd rather my mate say, "Hey...we're 3.7 miles from that school of
breaking fish." But neither binocs nor a rangefinder will help with that. Don't use binocs much. The area where I mostly boat is pretty forgiving,
coast-wise, there aren't many obstructions to espy, and no real inlets
to run. Even when I lived in Florida, I rarely used binocs to help with
navigation or safety, though I usually took a look at some of the
hairier inlets I had to run when returning from the ocean to port, to
see what the sea conditions were. I don't even take my big Fujis out anymore. My wife has swiped them for
bird and critter watching on our land property. I just take the small
Steiners out with me. Plus, I like the soft-side Steiner zip case. I can
stuff my cell and iPod in there, too. |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| I have no idea what JimH said about anything. What's more, I don't give a
rat's ass. |
JohnH
Jan 7
|
| Obviously you do as I have been mentioned in every post you have made
today. I have now put you in the Basskisser camp. |
JimH
Jan 7
|
|
Just filter Herring out and forget about him. He's never had anything to
offer here. Lousy fisherman, lousy golfer, piss-poor teacher and
professional right-wing whiner. Who needs offal like that? |
Harry
Jan 7
|
| Ok...looks like you were responding to NOYB directlyI was fooled
because JimH's post was just before yours.
My apologies. |
Don
Jan 7
|
| Done. Great advice! |
JimH
Jan 7
|
| Thanks again, Harry. It is so damn cool to be called names by one as neat
as you! I see you and your bud, Jimmy, are having a great morning. That's
spectacular. |
JohnH
Jan 7
|
| Yes, you were fooled, as was I. I had no idea Jimmy had made a post. I hope
his joke was funny and heartwarming. |
JohnH
Jan 7
|
| The Finnish waters are a bit different, unlike most (?) boating
locations in the world - at least different from most US conditions.
The coastline is not clean - instead there's lots of beautiful little
islands, either with woods or rocks. The downside is that the rocks can
be found below water too, though many of them are marked - or rather,
the navigable water without rocks is often marked ;) The inland waters
are the same and Finnish waters as a whole are notoriously
treacherous... So much for advertising ;) But that might result in some differences in
the need for binoculars, a small boat can get by fine without them in
good conditions, but I suppose serious boaters have at least one set in
the boat. Besides navigational aids you can use them to observe boats,
ships, islands and other such objects that come plenty in our waters. Risto |
Varis
Jan 7
|
| The Steiner Commnder V and the Fujinon's have the following things in
common: Both are are 7 power magnification with a 50mm diameter objective lens.
Both will magnify the image the same amount, and should gather about
the same amount of light. Both use
barium crown glass "porro" prisms. A major difference between the two is the field of view at 1000 yards.
The Commander V has a 385' field of view, and the Fujinon's have a 125'
field of view. While the objective diameters are the same, obviously
the Fujinon's have a longer focal length. You would have to "scan" a
little more to pick up a nav light, etc, with the Fujinons- but when
you find it the image will fill a larger section of the lens. Another major difference is the warranty. 30 years limited warranty on
the Steiners, 5 years parts/labor on the Fujinon products. How important, to you, is the bearing compass? If you have a hand held
bearing compass available, and don't need the bearing down to the
gnat's tush (or if your electronics are functioning), you "could get
by" without the bearing compass in the binocs.
If distance off of a mark is an important consideration for you, you
are most likely going to be inolved in coastal navigation. I'd
definitely prioritize the compasss over the range finder. Unless you're
taking a running fix, it's probably faster to
shoot a couple of bearings (three if possible) than it is to screw
around looking up or guessing the height of something that doesn't have
a height noted on the chart, and then trying to line up the circular
slide rules on the outside of the case- particularly in the dark. I use the bearing compass, but not the range finder, on mine. If you don't absolutely need a built in bearing compass, consider the
West Marine model
267755 binocs. If Steiner optics are important to you; these are built
by Steiner. They are $299.99 US without a bearing compass, and about
$500 with. |
Chuck
Jan 7
|
| There have been times where I could have used a set of gyro stabilized
binoculars - hasn't been often though. If I had my druthers, I'd opt for a good set of light amplifying
binoculars for night viewing. |
Short
Jan 6
|
| And, if you can easily afford the best, why settle for something well down
the line. The Canon 10 x42 stabilized is a fine pair of binoculars! |
JohnH
Jan 6
|
| I'd prefer gyro to wet bag stabilization - personal preference. |
Short
Jan 6
|
| The IS Fujinons use piezo cyrstals to create an electronic gyro that
drives minature servo operated prisms. Very fast and accurate, best
technology available from what I've read. |
Wayne.B
Jan 6
|
| as was was explained to me, in terms of "Boat Dollars" it is actually
pretty cheap. here's a handy conversion chart: 1 "Boat Dollar" is the equivalent to $100 to a non-boater. |
DownTime
Jan 6
|
| That's for smaller boats. Once you get up into the 30/40+ range you
are usually talking about Boat Bucks or Boat Units, currently about
$1,000 USD. When your total investment is measured in hundreds of Boat Units,
what's another one for a good pair of binocs? |
Wayne.B
Jan 6
|
| Amen. |
JohnH
Jan 6
|
| "investment"? |
Tim
Jan 6
|
| Touch=E9. Reminiscent of.....'please pass the Grey Poupon'. ;-) |
JimH
Jan 6
|
| I have Canon's image-stabilized 10x30's and they're awesome. |
NOYB
Jan 7
|
| Speaking of awesome, I was at my friend the dentist's office the other
day, and he showed me a milling machine that makes crowns right in his
office, and some other neat new stuff. |
Harry
Jan 6
|
| Hey! You are a dentist and can pass the cost along to your next
patient for those expensive toys. |
JimH
Jan 6
|
| The dictionary defines investment as: : the outlay of money usually for
income or profit : capital outlay; also : the sum invested or the property
purchased. Notice the word *usually*. Some of us make an investment in a boat knowing
we're going to lose our shorts! |
JohnH
Jan 7
|
| Amen! I see no reason to scrimp if you can afford the good stuff. Of
course, you'll catch some heat for having something worthwhile. But,
jealously has reared its ugly head with you many times anyway! |
JohnH
Jan 7
|
| I would not recommend using a 7x50 set of binocs on a small boat. The
motion of the boat will make it very difficult to use the binocs, and
might even make you seasick. Steiner makes waterproof binocs in 8x20, or maybe 8x30. Those might be
used more successfully on a small boat. The rangefinder isn't worth the trouble. |
Harry
Jan 5
|
| Wouldn't a heavy magnification (8x) however make the movement of the
boat more pronounced than with the standard 7x - the field of view
would appear to bob and heave more? (Following your advice one might go
for say 6x18 binoculars from Helios, which are waterproof and dirt
cheap...) Risto |
Varis
Jan 5
|
| I dunno. I can't use my 7x50 Fujis on my 25' Parker. I can use a pair of
8x30 Steiner Navigators, though. There's too much motion usually for me
to use the 7x50s. I use the binocs mainly to pick out channel marker buoy numbers and to
see what the guys in boats nearby are reeling in when they fish. Where I
boat, there's little need to do long-distance gazing. |
Harry
Jan 5
|
| I've got a wonderful pair of marine binocs that cost around $300 US
many years ago.
I can't image why the typical boater would really need something beyond
this medium price range. I'd get some good quality, genuine marine
binoculars and not worry about stepping up to the diamond studded
stuff. I agree with most of Harry's binocular comments, particularly
including the fact that the range finder is a PITA to use and for most
of us not really necessary. My binocs have a range finder, and I don't
think I've used it 3 times. |
Chuck
Jan 5
|
| Sounds like you need a bigger boat ... |
Ernest
Jan 5
|
| The right size for marine use is typically 7 x 50 because that gives
the best night vision, and can still be held steadily enough on most
boats. Steiner and Fujinon both make great binoculars but the Fujinon
image stabilized models are reported to be in a class by themselves. I currently have a nice pair of Steiner 7 x 50s on my boat but my next
pair will be the 12 x 50 stabilized Fujinons. |
Wayne.B
Jan 5
|
| well considered thoughts to the readers of rec.boats: |
Gene
Jan 5
|
| 7x25 is all you need for a small boat - range finding binocs are
useless. Stabilised binocs are fine, but they vary in technique from wet bag to
gyro stabilised. The gyro binocs are the best. But for a small boat, go with the 7x25s. |
Short
Jan 5
|
| If you had a lobster boat, that would be different.
|
Dan
Jan 5
|
| I have a pair of 7x35 Nikon's I purchased for less than $50 on sale
from a boat store. They have never failed me for my recreational
needs. Why folks seem to think they have to spend big bucks for these things
is beyond me. |
JimH
Jan 5
|
