Europe Tests Established Chemicals on Millions of Animals

14 February 2007

TO: All People Who Care

I am a private individual posting this message to help Laboratory Animals. I apologize if this message is out of place in this group but I think you need to know this.

A new European Chemical Testing Policy called REACH has now been finalised by the European Union. Under these proposals Chemicals of every kind - from those used in industrial processes to the ingredients of consumer products - will be tested on Millions of animals from mice to fish to dogs, causing untold suffering.

If you believe that REACH should make more use of Alternative Testing to test its Chemicals then please take action now.

If you are a European citizen please contact your local papers and own MEP asking them to promote the development of humane non-animal testing methods under the REACH legislation, which is the best hope we have for sparing animals the misery of a testing laboratory.

A sample letter can be found at the BUAV (British Union for the Abolition of Vivisection) website at www.BUAV.org (Select Campaigns, Chemical Testing, Get Active then Writing to the local press).

For all Non-European members, you can still help. Please tell all your colleagues and friends in the UK and Europe about REACH.

Everyone can help and you can make a difference.

Thank You

Not all of us eat, drink and sleep boating like you apparently do. Heck, there are several active members in this NG who are non boaters and don't even own a boat.

I guess I could repost some JD Power rating spam, but who needs thateh? ;-)

Also sad to think that non-boaters have nothing better to do than hang around a NG dedicated to a pastime they don't pursue. I don't own an airplane, but you won't catch me hanging out in the airplane newsgroups.

Give it up Chuck. No one appreciates your constant netcopping.

If you don't like OT then filter them out. If you are going to bitch about OT, then bitch about all of them, including dogs, photography, etc (which I have no problem with) as they are often informative and interesting reads.

Time to give up the badge Chuck. ;-)

John H

noun 1. the activity of a person or thing that sails. 2. the departure of a ship from port: The cruise line offers sailings every other day. 3. Navigation. any of various methods for determining courses and distances by means of charts or with reference to longitudes and latitudes, rhumb lines, great circles, etc.

>I'm not a sailor.

sail.or

noun 1. a person whose occupation is sailing or navigation; mariner. 2. a seaman below the rank of officer. 3. a naval enlistee. 4. a person adept at sailing, esp. with reference to freedom from seasickness.

Hmmmm - t'would seem to me that you fit the definition of sailing and sailor perfectly.

However, even if there are folks who use sail boats in cruising, your whole focus is cruising rather than boats in general - thus it would be more appropriate for you to, well, haunt rec.boats.cruising.

I mean, you earn your money editing a magazine which primarily is for cruisers - it would seem to me that you would want to involve yourself in a newsgroup SPECIFICALLY for cruising and those who participate in that aspect of boating rather than a GENERAL newsgroup that relates to boats in general and not CRUISING in particular. :>)

So then what, in your opinion, is the difference between "general boating" and specific boating activities? Should fishing posts be considered out of place at rec.boats? Lots of people boat but don't fish. I'll bet there are fishing newsgroups out there somewhere. How about water skiing posts? I've never been on a water ski in my entire life. If you eliminate every single boating activity as too specialized, all that would be left in rec.boats would be the non-boating social chit chat. At that point it would hardly be a boating newsgroup.

A dynamic boating newsgroup would be a group where different people contribute from their own unique perspective, allowing everybody to gain a wider perspective and appreciation of the pastime. If you feel that my particular boating experiences or perspectives aren't of interest to you, they may be of interest to somebody else. 90% of what you post here is entirely OT and profoundly uninteresting to me, but IMO as long as you aren't actively trolling for a fight (as some of the other OT specialists prefer to do) your activity is harmless clutter. Your daily links to You-tube videos always seem to find one or two interested respondents. Even if your posts were "harmful" clutter, beyond expressing an opinion there would be nothing that could be done about it.

Perhaps we won't ever see eye to eye on this issue, but that doesn't have to mean that either one of us is a bad guy. Don't like my stuff, don't read it. Surely you must have a filter?

Eisboch

But, in trying to foster chaos, how is your activity any different than mine? (Aside from the end you hope to achieve). You prefer a group where chaos reigns, where you can be entertained by the flame wars and "observe" personalities interacting. I feel that the group has been there, done that, and over the years we have become less useful as a resource for boaters as a result.

I will continue to "jawbone" for a group where we stick to boating most of the time. You don't have to like that or agree that having a group centered on boating is better than a group with no particular focus at all.

You will probably continue to use the group as a blog, informing us all about the details of your personal life and posting links to videos you find amusing. I don't have to care much either way about that, or agree that flame wars are useful entertainment.

None of us have any ability to "control" anybody else. How unfortunate that anybody would interpret the expression of my personal opinion as some sort of control mechanism. Perhaps my opinion will influence somebody, perhaps not. Same as the opinions you express- no difference at all.

(BTW, you asked about discussions at the yacht club; one thing that is never, ever, ever discussed is partisan politics. In general, the members respect one another enough to also respect individual political perspectives. Live and let live.)

The sign over the cyber door still says "Boating Newsgroup". I fail to see how it is wrong to try to influence content toward that end. It's your right and privilege to disagree.

--Mike

And that is surely your privilege to do.

But, in trying to foster chaos, how is your activity any different than mine? (Aside from the end you hope to achieve). You prefer a group where chaos reigns, where you can be entertained by the flame wars and "observe" personalities interacting. I feel that the group has been there, done that, and over the years we have become less useful as a resource for boaters as a result.

I will continue to "jawbone" for a group where we stick to boating most of the time. You don't have to like that or agree that having a group centered on boating is better than a group with no particular focus at all.

You will probably continue to use the group as a blog, informing us all about the details of your personal life and posting links to videos you find amusing. I don't have to care much either way about that, or agree that flame wars are useful entertainment.

None of us have any ability to "control" anybody else. How unfortunate that anybody would interpret the expression of my personal opinion as some sort of control mechanism. Perhaps my opinion will influence somebody, perhaps not. Same as the opinions you express- no difference at all.

(BTW, you asked about discussions at the yacht club; one thing that is never, ever, ever discussed is partisan politics. In general, the members respect one another enough to also respect individual political perspectives. Live and let live.)

The sign over the cyber door still says "Boating Newsgroup". I fail to see how it is wrong to try to influence content toward that end. It's your right and privilege to disagree.

John H

How about "ordered" chaos?

Chaos is a concept and in the context of rec.boats and my discussion with Chuck, it pertains to the off-topic threads as they often appear here. It's a relative term and not meant, in this discussion anyway, to be taken literally.

Perhaps I should have used disorder rather than chaos.

-- ***** Have a decent day! *****

John H

Your last 400 posts have been *most* worthwhile! -- ***** Have a decent day! *****

John H

Glad you're feeling better Jimmy. All the pain gone now? Are you trying to improve your karma? -- ***** Have a super day! *****

John H

You want to read about cruelty to animals? Go to the appropriate forum. Suppose the folks over at the animal welfare site would find it AOK if people began posting a lot of boating related material there?

http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?enc_user=Pn3qkBMAAABRR8NuK3rahijUeCRsCgfPWMj6vob75xS36mXc24h6ww&hl=en

John H

I think NG Netcops trump cross posters.

Are you ready Chuck?