What did these sailors do wrong?

Anybody know if this storm was well-predicted? A fluke? How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations? If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal?

--Vic

A very interesting man was Sir. Francis.

You'll find it very enlightning

CWM

Peter s/v Now or Never!

But, let's be reasonable just for a change, this hermit-on-a-boat crap you see on every dock, the old man with the heart condition sailing with his clueless wife who is, at best, an "informed passenger" and servant, "and the world can kiss my ass" attitude IS endangering lives, besides their own. Those boys in the helo deserve more respect and to be treated better than just cannon fodder for some old fool hell bent on killing his family....at all costs.

There DOES come a time, at some point, where EVERY ONE OF YOU needs to be told NO, if you're so self-centered you cannot see the danger you're putting yourself, and these rescuers/other boaters/etc. in.

This boat stupidity of just having money, being totally blind and driving the Hatteras 58 away from the dock is JUST STUPID! Larry

Neither one of us are "disabled" and either one of us can sail her safely for a day, maybe two. But, neither one of us will go offshore over 2 in our condition, which isn't really that bad, but we DO GET OVERTIRED IN 2 DAYS....too tired for safe sailing in a squall condition, which happens often, here.

Our "crew" is SIX sailors, sometimes EIGHT, for passages Charleston to FL, for example. Everyone gets SLEEP, noone gets DEAD. All hands are available, including ours, in bad situations. The other four are late 20's to mid 40's, experienced sailors, physically fit. And we STILL have been beaten up to exhaustion a few times offshore of Georgia.

I cannot imagine how an 80-year-old goat and his 78-year-old wife can be called "fit" to sail a 38' boat under those circumstances...I just can't!

Larry

What's the difference?

Eliminate the "if you get into trouble we'll come try to save you for free, possibly dying in the process" element from the Government, and the issue solves itself, and people remain FREE. YOU would put them into some ridiculous playpen with the Government Nanny watching over them. A pox upon them and anyone who proposes such nonsense.

You can have the illusion of safety or you can be free. Choose.

They are playing a role game...."Captain". In America, it takes nothing but MONEY, really. Some even mow their own lawns!....on riding lawn mowers, of course! Those are the individuals you find offshore in trouble, here.

Did anyone see what this nice old guy does for a living, besides the SS checks and stock options, in this latest rescue? Does he fit my dock description?

Larry

Insurance companies are the real gate keepers.

Next question please?

Damn - next thing you are going to tell me is that the Easter Bunny is dead.

Or Harry is really a GOP organizer.

>Next question please?

Is Harry a GOP organizer?

First you attack old people, like they can't make up their own minds whether to sail or not. Second, you want the "government" to license us! Are you F'n kidding? The same assholes who invaded Iraq? The same US government with senators such as Ted Kennedy? The US government that is CORRUPT!

Where do you think the license money will go? Have you thought about that?

You know where it will go .. right in the pocket of some fatass, corrupt, bloated, F..k nut.

Tell ya what .. if you can't post something more thought out than this ...

Stop sailing ... you are a danger to the rest of us!

====== "Larry" <noone@home.com> wrote in message

What kind of ignorant hogwash is this? I have never met a sailor over 60 whom I would not trust to be a good and reliable skipper. It's true that as we age our physical abilities diminish. However, the dangers encountered in sailing are more related to abilities of judgement rather than abilities of muscle. The fact is, younger sailors are just as liable to make the same errors in judgement as older sailors. The problem encountered by the sailors in question had nothing to do with their age and everything to do with their judgement. And, I'd be willing to bet they could pass a "licensing test". After all, we have licensing requirements for automobiles and drivers of all ages still make stupid errors of judgement.

Peter s/v Now or Never!

--Alan Gomes

"BETTER DROWNED THAN DUFFERS IF NOT DUFFERS WONT DROWN." -- Arthur Ransome

http://www.runnersweb.com/running/rw_news_frameset.html?http://www.runnersweb.com/running/news/rw_news_20040927_TWM.html

Larry

Doesn't wash, no matter how many years they got away with it.

Larry

Leanne

For the record, not all "moving forms of transportation" require licensing. Skateboards, rollerskates, bicycles (some cities excepted), ultralight aircraft, hang-gliders...none require licensing. And if you want to get into Constitutionality, all American Citizens have the inalienable natural right to use the public roadways and to transport themselves and their property upon those roadways. That right cannot be converted into a privilege. Only COMMERCIAL use of the roadways can be licensed -- just as with the waterways. Everyone has the right to use the waterways to transport themselves and their property, as long as it is not for commercial purposes.

Don't believe me? Look up the Supreme Court decisions on the subject.

- Dan Best

In 1992 RKJ was invited to become President of the Sail Training Association, a youth development organisation which operated two topsail schooners “Sir Winston Churchill” and “Malcolm Miller” and also organised the annual Tall Ships races. Before he retired in 2001 £11 million had been raised to replace these two vessels with two larger brigs “Prince William” and “Stavros Niarchos” respectively left and right below.

Also, there is a nice steel sailboat for sail in Nain, Labrador. A fellow just finished doing the North East passage last fall. Made him Nova Scotia sailer of the year.

Then he got wacked by a 42 year old driver as he was riding his bike.

BTW - said sailor was 72.

Now slightly off topic, not that old, but with a different kind of handicap.

Howard Blackburn was born in Nova Scotia in 1859. At the age of 18, he moved south to Massachusetts, seeking work as a fisherman, and became part of the Gloucester, Massachusetts fishing community. Blackburn first rose to fame in 1883. While he was fishing on the schooner Grace L. Fears, a sudden winter storm caught him and a crewmate unprepared while they were in their dory, leaving them separated from the schooner. Blackburn began to row for shore, despite the loss of his mittens; he knew his hands would freeze, so he kept them in the hooked position that would allow him to row.

After five days with virtually no food, water, or sleep, he made it to shore in Newfoundland; but his companion had died during the journey. Blackburn's hands were treated for frostbite, but could not be saved; he lost all his fingers, and both thumbs to the first joint.

Blackburn returned to Gloucester a hero, and with the help of the town, managed to establish a successful saloon. Not content with this, he organised an expedition to the Klondike to join the gold rush; rather than go overland, he and his group sailed there, via Cape Horn.

After the quest for gold failed, Blackburn turned his attention to a new challenge — to sail single-handed across the Atlantic Ocean. This had been done before, by Alfred "Centennial" Johnson in 1876, and Joshua Slocum had completed a single-handed circumnavigation in 1898; but for a man with no fingers to undertake such a voyage would be quite an accomplishment.

He sailed from Gloucester in 1899, in the sloop Great Western, and reached England after 62 days at sea.

Returning to Gloucester, Blackburn continued to prosper as a businessman; but he still hankered for adventure. In 1901, he sailed to Portugal in the twenty-five-foot sloop Great Republic, making the trip in 39 days. In 1903 he again set out alone, this time in the sailing dory America, but was defeated by bad weather.

Blackburn died in 1932; his funeral was attended by many of the people of Gloucester. He was buried in the Fishermen’s Rest section of Beechgrove Cemetery.

Live and learn, or live an snooze, you choose.

Maybe they aren't American .. and maybe they don't want no stinkin license.

Nanny Nanny Nanny .....

Can't people kill themselves anymore without some government asshole telling them to get a license?

Talk about total bullshit.. take the license and stick it up your ass.

====

I don't believe age has any thing to do with operation of a boat. Experience and common sense over rule any other factor.

CWM

A front off New England is pushing this low backwards down the East Coast. Seas offshore of Charleston are over 30 feet high, according to a local radio station, this morning. Airplanes are landing with big crab angles at the airport as it's blowing between runway headings. The sky is clear, but 50% pop tonight and tomorrow as it approaches us.

They had no business being out there, even in clear weather! This statement from the webpage says it all:

"a couple in their 70’s and a 40-year-old woman who were stranded 200 miles out to sea."

IN THEIR 70'S?! COME ON! How stupid is that, offshore 200 miles with NO YOUNG, STRONG BACKS ABOARD?!!

As long as rich stupids like these are buying boats, I still say LICENSING should be mandatory. You want to sail...fine. You take the course, TAKE THE PHYSICAL TO SEE IF YOU REALLY BELONG OUT THERE (no matter what YOU think), then, if you pass all the REQUIREMENTS....then, we issue you a LICENSE, we can revoke when you are too old, to PREVENT YOU from endangering the lives of young rescue swimmers, helo crews and boat crews just because you are too stupid and pig headed to see you are too old to go "out there" without enough MUSCLE and ENDURANCE for that worst case scenario you should be REQUIRED to be prepared for.

NOONE IN THEIR 70'S NEED APPLY! They should be PASSENGERS of ABLE SEAMEN!

Larry

>How would a Mac 26M fare in these situations?

Your guess is as good as anyone else. No one in their right mind would go off shore in a boat not designed for that kind of use.

>If the boat isn't sinking, when would you send the distress signal?

If you have people seriously injured there isn't much choice. Boats are usually tougher than people, and broken ribs, dehydration, or hypothermia can all be life threatning.

--Vic

--Vic

Nah, can't have that. Too much freedom.

--Vic

One of the saltiest and most capable boaters I ever knew was cruising his 38-footer until a week before he died. In fact, we were with him when he started having chest pains one evening at the Silverdale town dock. We took him to a hospital to get checked out. That was the beginning of the end for him, he didn't survive the angioplasty operation the following week. He was 83 or 84, and his wife a couple of years younger.

Two other friends of mine are enroute to Alaska right this minute aboard their 48-foot DeFever. He's 81 and runs the boat, she's 62 or 63. They are running a blog called Big Brivet's Big Adventure ("Big Brivet" is the name of their boat).

On the other hand, my father is in his late 70's. He would have no business aboard a boat, even as a passenger. He's got a leg and hip that was messed up pretty badly in an auto accident 30-40 years ago and he thought he would just "tough it out" rather than get it fixed. He limped for a long time, but now he can't get around without a walker.

Also, every boat should have a barometer, placed where it will be seen frequently. I have a clock and barometer on the aft bulkhead of the main cabin, with the barometer mounted above the companionway leading aft. I see it all the time, and consciously look at it 2-3 times a day. If the forecast is favorable but the barometer suddenly starts to plummet, I believe the barometer and not the forecast.

A Mac 26 would not do well in hurricane force winds, nor would the majority of small sailboats. There are very good reasons why most sensible boaters won't venture out in a near gale, let alone the winds described in the news item.

--Vic